[X] My Assistant

[Tashiro]

I have a possession-based tradition character in my SR game, who tends to summon Force 10-14 spirits. He's mentioned that if it possesses an object, the object has no 'augmented maximum', so it gets the full benefit of augmented traits. Is this true? I was wondering if the item could only get a 50% increase (or perhaps double) the actual trait.

Can you use a Force 14 spirit to make an indestructible marshmallow? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

… I'm sorry, I couldn't get beyond the incredible problem of your first sentence. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DMiller]

… I'm sorry, I couldn't get beyond the incredible problem of your first sentence. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It's really not that uncommon of an issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Force 10+ spirits aren't unheard of in my game either. Of course we are VERY pink mohock.

As far as bumping past some maximum... Our table says that the spirits don't have a maximum, so they add force to all stats without limits (including when possessing a metahuman). But as always YMMV.

-D

[Tashiro]

… I'm sorry, I couldn't get beyond the incredible problem of your first sentence. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It doesn't surprise me though, I tended to do this in SR 3 with my shaman. I'd only get 1-2 tasks, but hey, for those tasks, the thing's damn near unstoppable. I've given the player a semi-warning once, in that the spirit he tried to summon at one point spent an Edge on the resistance roll. I indicated that the character has to really learn to play nice with the spirits, or they'll be more reluctant to just accept being summoned.

So his character's now trying to talk with, socialize with, and make friends with the spirits, rather than just yanking the biggest one he can find. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (On my part, in SR3, my character was always making nice with spirits, to the point where he invented a metamagic to 'gift karma' to a spirit as a thank you before dismissing them.)

[Dakka Dakka]

Even without Edge, the expected drain for Force 14 is more than 9P with a maximum of 28P. Are you sure the player is using the rules right?

Moreover inanimate objects do not get any additional functionality by possession. So an object that could not normally move on its own could not either if it is possessed. Otherwise, yes you will get very resilient objects.

[Tashiro]

Even without Edge, the expected drain for Force 14 is more than 9P with a maximum of 28P. Are you sure the player is using the rules right?

Moreover inanimate objects do not get any additional functionality by possession. So an object that could not normally move on its own could not either if it is possessed. Otherwise, yes you will get very resilient objects.

Well, he's also doing things like having it possess weapons and armour (which increases the accuracy and damage of the weapon, or the B/I of the armour). I'm just wondering if there should be an upper limit for what it can do / have (like 1.5 or 2 x the item's normal value).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, he's also doing things like having it possess weapons and armour (which increases the accuracy and damage of the weapon, or the B/I of the armour). I'm just wondering if there should be an upper limit for what it can do / have (like 1.5 or 2 x the item's normal value).

And how, exactly, does a spirit increase the accuracy of a Weapon by possessing it?

[Seerow]

And how, exactly, does a spirit increase the accuracy of a Weapon by possessing it?

This. Possession is meant for either possessing people, or creating D&D style golems (ie animating statues, drones, and the like). You could probably possess a full armor suit... but possessing a gun? Wouldn't do you a damn bit of good.

[Dakka Dakka]

A gun probably won't get any bonuses but you could argue that the DV of a melee weapon is due to its "mechanical functions".

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But you could argue that the DV of a melee weapon is due to its "mechanical functions".

I wouldn't argue that at all... You would just get a really tough weapon out of the deal.

[LurkerOutThere]

I have a possession-based tradition character in my SR game, who tends to summon Force 10-14 spirits. He's mentioned that if it possesses an object, the object has no 'augmented maximum', so it gets the full benefit of augmented traits. Is this true? I was wondering if the item could only get a 50% increase (or perhaps double) the actual trait.

Can you use a Force 14 spirit to make an indestructible marshmallow? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

No, spirit possesed people (the biggest issue) are still subject to metahuman maximums per the errata document at least, and thank Big D for that.

[Dakka Dakka]

I wouldn't argue that at all... You would just get a really tough weapon out of the deal.

Isn't the DV a "physical rating" of the weapon as well? Not only its resilience? Strictly speaking weapons aren't even barriers and as such do not get a barrier rating. What would you improve on a weapon?

No, spirit possesed people (the biggest issue) are still subject to metahuman maximums per the errata document at least, and thank Big D for that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/proof.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
Are you sure. The only place I saw this was in the FAQ. The rules in Street Magic say the exact opposite.

[Tashiro]

A vehicle that is possessed gets an increase in Speed, Body, and Armour (SM II pg 102). It mentions an object's 'physical ratings' get increased. Would this include accuracy in a gun? The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking that a weapon's accuracy or DV is not a 'physical rating' - the accuracy can be compared to the Handling of a vehicle (which is not augmented).

I don't see any restriction to 'augmented maximum' for possession though, in SM II.

[Mardrax]

And how, exactly, does a spirit increase the accuracy of a Weapon by possessing it?

Or the B/I values of armor?

[CrystalBlue]

I think he's meaning that, instead of having the character attack with the weapon, it would be the spirit attacking with the weapon, which might have more dice to throw at the attack roll. Though, this is wrong, as the spirit can't actually 'attack'. It's stationary in the weapon.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Isn't the DV a "physical rating" of the weapon as well? Not only its resilience? Strictly speaking weapons aren't even barriers and as such do not get a barrier rating. What would you improve on a weapon?

Absolutely Nothing.

[Tashiro]

Or the B/I values of armor?

If it can increase the Body and Armour of a car, wouldn't it also increase the BI of armour?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If it can increase the Body and Armour of a car, wouldn't it also increase the BI of armour?

No... Worn Armor is not a Vehicle.

[Christian Lafay]

I was unaware that possessing spirits increase the body of a vehicle... I REALLY need to start looking deeper into the magic rules and stop playing mundanes. I also need to stop drooling over the, now assumed, way to put more slots for mods onto a vehicle since it's body just went nuts.

[Yerameyahu]

What? You obviously can't add more mods. The Body is increased for the purposes of damage resistance, and maybe ramming? Sounds like a terrible rule in the first place, but either way, it doesn't get bigger, or heavier, or anything like that. If you want more mods, just Overmod (because clearly your GM doesn't care). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Christian Lafay]

This is Shadowrun, good sir. "Obvious" comes up very little. But I understand your point.

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe. I know that you mean it's often *ignored*, but it frequently comes up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just another aspect of the Possession mess, anyway.

[Tanegar]

I have a possession-based tradition character in my SR game, who tends to summon Force 10-14 spirits. He's mentioned that if it possesses an object, the object has no 'augmented maximum', so it gets the full benefit of augmented traits. Is this true? I was wondering if the item could only get a 50% increase (or perhaps double) the actual trait.

Can you use a Force 14 spirit to make an indestructible marshmallow? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

To sum up the consensus (with which I happen to agree): the possession mage's player has been blowing smoke up your ass. Next session, smack him good and hard over the head with the rulebook.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm still dying to see the dice rolls that have allowed him to survive this several times.

[Seerow]

I'm still dying to see the dice rolls that have allowed him to survive this several times.

Does Absorption or Bloodmagic allow you to reduce drain on summoning, or only on spells? Cause that's about the only way I can think of surviving.