[X] My Assistant

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm still dying to see the dice rolls that have allowed him to survive this several times.

Me Too...

Does Absorption or Bloodmagic allow you to reduce drain on summoning, or only on spells? Cause that's about the only way I can think of surviving.

Absorption does not, Blood Magic Might.

[Mardrax]

Blood magic could, off the top of my head. But when players get their hands on blood magic, things have gone too far anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[pbangarth]

Even if he is just Summoning, and not Binding, sooner or later this PC will kill himself. Encourage the player to Summon at every opportunity. Hasten the inevitable.

[Tanegar]

Remember to add grisly descriptions of the spirit reanimating his corpse and eye-socket-raping his teammates to death. If they're not puking, you didn't do it right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

Also remember the rules about having spirits spend edge to resist, any spirit summoned by a magician with a lower magic rating then them really should be spending edge to resist that.

[UmaroVI]

The rules are super unclear about what does and doesn't get boosted by spirits, and they basically say "go hog wild, make things up based on what you think will balance your game." I don't see indestructible marshmallows as a big problem but I sure wouldn't allow melee weapons to get bonuses to hit and also to DV like that.

[Hound]

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a thing about still having to use augmented maximums. Might have been reading it wrong though, or possibly confusing it with the rules on Inhabitation.

For the possession of weapons/armor, I've always looked at it like, they don't increase the actual DV or B/I, but they still get to use their spirit powers. So your armor that's possessed by an F5 spirit will still have 10/10 hardened armor. Or if you possess a sword with a fire spirit, it could have a flame aura.

[Yerameyahu]

That's the only thing that definitely doesn't happen, though. It might be a good house rule. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Hound]

That's the only thing that definitely doesn't happen, though. It might be a good house rule. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

hm, really? I guess I'll have to read that whole section again. Maybe that whole book just to be sure. Annoying how half of the relevant information on Possession is in a sidebar, and some of it is in random other places...

[Yerameyahu]

To clarify, those things do 'happen', just not in a player-useful way. The armor is still bolstered… against destruction, but doesn't help defend the PC. The weapon might have an aura, but it only affects attacks made by the spirit under its own action (or if someone tried to sunder the weapon, I guess).

[Hound]

To clarify, those things do 'happen', just not in a player-useful way. The armor is still bolstered… against destruction, but doesn't help defend the PC. The weapon might have an aura, but it only affects attacks made by the spirit under its own action (or if someone tried to sunder the weapon, I guess).

see, the way I look at it is this:

for armor, in order to hit the PC wearing the armor, you have to puncture the armor (at least with bullets, which is honestly what most runners are worried about when they wear armor.) Therefore, you would have to puncture the spirit which is possessing the armor, therefore an attack against that spirit is implied in any attack against a player wearing spirit-possessed armor.

for weapons, I read the elemental Aura power as "Any creature in melee range of the Aura must resist damage from it." So, according to my understanding, whether you're attacking or not, is irrelevant.

[Yerameyahu]

I dig, I'm just telling you that those are non-RAW. They're house rules. You're reading what isn't written there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There's nothing wrong with that, and the 'real' rules are often terrible.

[Hound]

I dig, I'm just telling you that those are non-RAW. They're house rules. You're reading what isn't written there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There's nothing wrong with that, and the 'real' rules are often terrible.

fair enough. Doesn't seem too OP to me, this way, especially since I would count that as terrible treatment of a spirit (for the armor at least)

On the topic of the guy summoning force 10+ spirits, I would assume such a spirit would be like, a demi-god. If they summon spirits that high, I'd start giving them extra powers the player doesn't know about, and letting them bend the rules of summoning. Even if the player is very nice to spirits, a powerful one wouldn't be used to being commanded and might not appreciate it.

[Dakka Dakka]

fair enough. Doesn't seem too OP to me, this way, especially since I would count that as terrible treatment of a spirit (for the armor at least)

Is it really? Unless you use additional house rules, the spirit is in no danger of being damaged and doesn't even have to do anything.

[Yerameyahu]

Sure, but it'll get bored. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They need proper stimulating exercise, those spirits.

[Hound]

Is it really? Unless you use additional house rules, the spirit is in no danger of being damaged and doesn't even have to do anything.

how so? if we're assuming that the armor is the spirits "body" and that in order to hit the player, a bullet would have to pass through it, wouldn't that mean that, given those premises, the spirit would suffer some kind of damage? Or, at the very least, discomfort/pain/whatever-spirits-feel-when-a-bullet-passes-through-their-physical-body?

[Dakka Dakka]

Sure, but it'll get bored. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They need proper stimulating exercise, those spirits.

It's only until sunrise/sunset. I can think of worse lots.

how so? if we're assuming that the armor is the spirits "body" and that in order to hit the player, a bullet would have to pass through it, wouldn't that mean that, given those premises, the spirit would suffer some kind of damage? Or, at the very least, discomfort/pain/whatever-spirits-feel-when-a-bullet-passes-through-their-physical-body?

Which again is a house rule. You can only target the spirit armor composite or the wearer by RAW unless you are using AoE weapons. If you use such a houserule it is no worse than sending the spirit into combat possessing another object/person.

[Tashiro]

It's only until sunrise/sunset. I can think of worse lots.

Unless the magician does a ritual summon to extend that (which is par for the course here).

Thinking about the armour thing - why would a person get resistance to normal weapons and attribute boosts, and a car get extra body/armour, but normal armour wouldn't?

[Yerameyahu]

The armor *does*. But the armor having ITNW doesn't give the *wearer* anything.

Hound, Dakka Dakka's pointing out that that's another house rule. RAW, armor (and things possessing armor) doesn't take damage like that. So you have to make a new rule to support your other rule.

[Cheops]

Sure, but it'll get bored. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They need proper stimulating exercise, those spirits.

What if it is a Guardian spirit? Isn't that what they're supposed to do? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

As for helping with dice rolls, if the spirit has the relevant skills and the flight power I would be willing to let it roll a teamwork test to help in attacking or dodging or whatever. You could even make a case that it is the spirit triggering the firing mechanisms not the mage. A free suppression fire in whatever direction the mage is pointing would be a pretty fun follow up to a Powerball casting.

[Hound]

The armor *does*. But the armor having ITNW doesn't give the *wearer* anything.

Hound, Dakka Dakka's pointing out that that's another house rule. RAW, armor (and things possessing armor) doesn't take damage like that. So you have to make a new rule to support your other rule.

yeah I can see that, I'm not really trying to argue RAW, just explaining my point of view really. The rules often seem wonky to me in some places, and I suspect it's more due to oversights, rather than intentions.

[Yerameyahu]

Don't sugarcoat it: the rules in many places are bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's just fundamental on Dumpshock that we're clear on the what they are in the first place, and then we can fix them.

[Dahrken]

for weapons, I read the elemental Aura power as "Any creature in melee range of the Aura must resist damage from it." So, according to my understanding, whether you're attacking or not, is irrelevant.

... but in that case the wileder should be exposed to the damages from the aura too (and the eventual other spirit possessing his armor). With a F10+ spirit this is quickly going to hurt.

[Minimax le Rouge]

a materialized fire spirit is in melee range of is personnal Energy Aura, but have no immunity so by the (dumbs) rules he vanished?

Possession traditions have no clear rules. So all i have read above sounds like House Rules to me.
Up to each GM to forge is opinion on this, but i don't see unbalanced think about a spirit possessing an armor or a weapon, and gifting the owner an extra armor or damage. If the spirit possessed directly a Vessel, it works like this, so why can't you have the same (but reduced to one aspect) think?

[Tashiro]

If I had to guess, for possession, it works like manifestation, only requires an object / person, and the rules under possession are more or less the only change involved. It can do anything else a manifested spirit can do. I'm more concerned about what it does to inanimate objects that acts like the immunity and augmented attributes normal people get.

Though honestly, for physical stats, I'd probably have ruled 'higher of Force or the possessed host's physical attributes' - much less munchinking involved.