Hacking privileges, Can't find the rule - did I dream it? Options

[Aerospider]

Hey guys, I need a page reference (SR4a or Unwired) or to be told it does not exist.

Say you have a security account (legit or otherwise) but you want to do something that needs admin privileges. Is it impossible, or can it be done with a roll where a legitimate user would not have to roll?

[Xenefungus]

It's true, but I don't have a page for you, too.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hey guys, I need a page reference (SR4a or Unwired) or to be told it does not exist.

Say you have a security account (legit or otherwise) but you want to do something that needs admin privileges. Is it impossible, or can it be done with a roll where a legitimate user would not have to roll?

You would have to spoof the command at that point, using the -6 Dice for lack of Appropriate Admin Access (IIRC). I have seen it. Will have to actually look for the rule though.

[Seerow]

You would have to spoof the command at that point, using the -6 Dice for lack of Appropriate Admin Access (IIRC). I have seen it. Will have to actually look for the rule though.

Isn't there a rule that if you try to spoof a different access ID while you're already in a node, you get automatically disconnected because your access ID changed tipping the node off that you're lying? I'm pretty sure I saw something along those lines.

[Aerospider]

You would have to spoof the command at that point, using the -6 Dice for lack of Appropriate Admin Access (IIRC). I have seen it. Will have to actually look for the rule though.

But only peripheral devices and things with pilot programs can be spoofed, so on other nodes one can only log off and hack a better account?

[Aerospider]

Isn't there a rule that if you try to spoof a different access ID while you're already in a node, you get automatically disconnected because your access ID changed tipping the node off that you're lying? I'm pretty sure I saw something along those lines.

I believe there's a difference between using Spoof to change your access ID and using it to change the access ID on the individual command you're sending. The first would cause an account issue, but with the latter the device thinks the command came from someone else. I think.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I believe there's a difference between using Spoof to change your access ID and using it to change the access ID on the individual command you're sending. The first would cause an account issue, but with the latter the device thinks the command came from someone else. I think.

Something like that. When you set off an alarm on a system, all of your Account Priveleges are nullified, and you MUST spoof everything you do until you log off. You CAN spoof commands that you do not have access to use per your own Access Rights. Again, no pages, as I am AFB, but I know that I saw that as well. 2 Different usages for a single word causes a few problems from time to time.

[hobgoblin]

When doing something test worthy with a legitimate account one use computer, when it it outside the privileges of said account, one use hacking. Spoof only enter into it when one do not have the option or inclination to log in in some way.

If one have a low level of account and want to get higher, one basically hack ones way up in the same way as the initial hack. Perhaps the GM can give a slight dice bonus for being inside (more effort may have been focused on hardening the system from outside intrusion rather then inside escalation).

[Aerospider]

Something like that. When you set off an alarm on a system, all of your Account Priveleges are nullified, and you MUST spoof everything you do until you log off. You CAN spoof commands that you do not have access to use per your own Access Rights. Again, no pages, as I am AFB, but I know that I saw that as well. 2 Different usages for a single word causes a few problems from time to time.

Ah, of course! Alerts, Unwired p. 67.

'Additionally, all privileges involving the node itself (such as deactivating programs or agents, rebooting, editing files, etc.) are no longer automatically allowed to the trespasser, who must either use the Hacking skill to perform such actions or Spoof a command from a legitimate user that still has her permissions intact.'

But then, that doesn't quite satisfy my query in itself. I would assume that this passage implies one can use the Hacking skill this way for permissions not afforded to the account being used even without an alert, but it would be nice to find some corroborating text.

Also, what about commanding a linked drone? Doesn't really make sense to replace Pilot Aircraft with Hacking, but then maybe that doesn't count because it concerns a different node?

[Sengir]

Hey guys, I need a page reference (SR4a or Unwired) or to be told it does not exist.

I'm quite sure it doesn't exist -- in general, the combination of user accounts and hacking seemingly did not get much attention from the devs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ah, of course! Alerts, Unwired p. 67.

'Additionally, all privileges involving the node itself (such as deactivating programs or agents, rebooting, editing files, etc.) are no longer automatically allowed to the trespasser, who must either use the Hacking skill to perform such actions or Spoof a command from a legitimate user that still has her permissions intact.'

But then, that doesn't quite satisfy my query in itself. I would assume that this passage implies one can use the Hacking skill this way for permissions not afforded to the account being used even without an alert, but it would be nice to find some corroborating text.

That's the one...

[Udoshi]

You would have to spoof the command at that point, using the -6 Dice for lack of Appropriate Admin Access (IIRC). I have seen it. Will have to actually look for the rule though.

Part of the problem for Account Priviledges is that its split between the core book and unwired.

Security/Admin difficulty threshold adjustments are in the core book, but spoofing penalties are detailed in Unwired. Specifically in the Advanced Spoofing section in, i think, the hacker handbook.

Unwired also changes the Account Types around a bit, by introducing a new account type with priviledges even worse than the standard user: Public accounts/access, which is something to be aware of.


The question I have is.....
Okay, so I'm fairly sure that when you don't have permissions for an action you want to take on the node, you must roll Hacking+Exploit(lets go with exploit), penalized by the priviledge adjustment while the system opposes the change with System+Firewall. If you fail, it stops you.
But for the life of me, i can't find that in text. Anyone know where its at? That specific bit of rules text that deals with 'what happens when you don't have priviledges and need to roll to hack'.

[Merlin]

Somewhere in the text of the matrixchapter or Unwird there is something like a hacking edit. You roll Hacking + Edit to edit something you have no priviledges to edit. I will try to look it up.

Edit: On page 67 Unwird there is a exemple for using hacking to edit somthing you have no priviledges for.

Hm, not much information.

[Aerospider]

Part of the problem for Account Priviledges is that its split between the core book and unwired.

Security/Admin difficulty threshold adjustments are in the core book, but spoofing penalties are detailed in Unwired. Specifically in the Advanced Spoofing section in, i think, the hacker handbook.

Unwired also changes the Account Types around a bit, by introducing a new account type with priviledges even worse than the standard user: Public accounts/access, which is something to be aware of.


The question I have is.....
Okay, so I'm fairly sure that when you don't have permissions for an action you want to take on the node, you must roll Hacking+Exploit(lets go with exploit), penalized by the priviledge adjustment while the system opposes the change with System+Firewall. If you fail, it stops you.
But for the life of me, i can't find that in text. Anyone know where its at? That specific bit of rules text that deals with 'what happens when you don't have priviledges and need to roll to hack'.

That's pretty much the question that started this thread.
I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to house rule it this way.

But there are sub-questions on my mind:
What about actions that require a roll from legitimate users? Such as controlling a device? Should the hacker roll twice, once for permission and once for effect?
Also, should a failure instigate an alert, or should that only come from a glitch?

I don't think the -3/-6 penalty does apply to this hacking roll. It doesn't in the case of a restricted alert.

[hobgoblin]

Nah, it is just a change of skill. As long as one can use computer, one is doing everything on the up and up and should never trigger an alarm. But one will be basically locked out of doing anything outside the privileges of the user account one is currently logged in as.

Think of computer as driving using the key, and hacking as driving by hotwiring the ignition. Both get things going, but the latter is likely to raise some questions by observers.

[Udoshi]

In the end, i went looking for answers in the book on my own - its worth noting that the 4th edition book tends to be a bit clearer on how the matrix works, providing examples, and stuff like that. It was one of the sections that i feel got cut down a bit for anniversary. Its missing some things, like the rigger actions table. Oddly, decrypt used to be Decrypt+Response. Huh. The more you know.

Anyway. Found the answer. Its in an example in unwired(67)

The young hacker, /dev/grrl, has hacked herself an
admin account, but she glitches on a roll and an active
alert ensues. While she normally would have been able
to Edit the node’s access log without rolling, she now must
make an Opposed Hacking + Edit Test against the node’s
Firewall + System to do so.

Thanks devgrll.

Will look more into it, see if that's backed up anywhere.

[Aerospider]

Thanks for the help guys, but no need to keep quoting/citing Unwired p.67. That's the third time now.