[X] My Assistant

[Tanegar]

Does not compute

So "enough beer" is like "enuff dakka?"

[CanRay]

"Sir, a... A... A dragon just came and DRANK THE BREWERY! ALL OF THE BREWERY!!!" "Yeah, he does that. Don't worry, he owns the place, so he's drinking his own profits."

[Udoshi]

Being a dual natured ghoul isn't quite as bad as most people make it out to be, though. It can be dealt with without burning out and losing the dual natured power. Just make a ghoul PC as an adept or mystic adept with Great Leap and Distance Strike. Ghouls can make scarily effective melee fighters with their attribute boosts.

....
You know that burnt out ghoul and adept are mutually exclusive, right? Magic 0 adept is not an adept at all.

Though i suppose its a good candidate for way of the burnout

[Yerameyahu]

Read again. He's talking about *not* burning out, and dealing with it via being an adept.

[Sephiroth]

Thank you, Yerameyahu. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not sure you're right (at least, about effectively dealing with Dual Natured). The Mystic Adept with a Stunbolt, on the other hand…

[Sephiroth]

Ultimately it does come down to tactics. A ghoul PC should try not to allow itself to be attacked from the astral in a wide open space. In that case, obviously the mage will have the gross advantage. But if the ghoul is smart and puts the mage in a position where he/she has to enter an enclosed space to attack the ghoul, like...say... in a vehicle (the popular and very tempting situation for "spirit-bombing," as we both know), then the ghoul PC will have the advantage over the mage or spirit in question. ESPECIALLY with Distance Strike, Great Leap, Pain Resistance, and Spell Resistance. Tactics are important for Ghoul PC's, that's true for everything in SR, but a ghoul adept definitely has it better off than a non-Awakened but still dual natured ghoul.

[HunterHerne]

Ultimately it does come down to tactics. A ghoul PC should try not to allow itself to be attacked from the astral in a wide open space. In that case, obviously the mage will have the gross advantage. But if the ghoul is smart and puts the mage in a position where he/she has to enter an enclosed space to attack the ghoul, like...say... in a vehicle (the popular and very tempting situation for "spirit-bombing," as we both know), then the ghoul PC will have the advantage over the mage or spirit in question. ESPECIALLY with Distance Strike, Great Leap, Pain Resistance, and Spell Resistance. Tactics are important for Ghoul PC's, that's true for everything in SR, but a ghoul adept definitely has it better off than a non-Awakened but still dual natured ghoul.

The Ghoul adept would be better off, yes. But Ghouls are not necessarily feral creatures, even as NPCs (although they can be), and should be able to mitigate their weaknesses, anyway. As Ghouls are Dual natured, and as such able to astrally percieve, they have the ability to construct wards, which, in combat with a mage, can function as stationary barriers the ghouls can freely pass without letting the mage through so easily. They can also be used to herd astral projectors into traps.

[Elfenlied]

The Ghoul adept would be better off, yes. But Ghouls are not necessarily feral creatures, even as NPCs (although they can be), and should be able to mitigate their weaknesses, anyway. As Ghouls are Dual natured, and as such able to astrally percieve, they have the ability to construct wards, which, in combat with a mage, can function as stationary barriers the ghouls can freely pass without letting the mage through so easily. They can also be used to herd astral projectors into traps.

Provided the Ghoul actually has homeground advantage. If he doesn't, he's just as easily screwed by enemy wards.

[Stahlseele]

wait . . ghouls can construct wards without being mages themselves? O.o

[HunterHerne]

wait . . ghouls can construct wards without being mages themselves? O.o

SR4A 194

Wa rds
Wards are a temporary form of dual-natured mana barrier that can be
created by any Awakened being with astral perception (including spirits
and adepts with the Astral Perception power).

First line about wards.

The test is Magic+willpower. No spellcasting involved.

[Stahlseele]

*blink blink* . . dude . . i never knew that . . i don't trust magic . . will have to make sure none of my GM's or players in my group ever learn of this <.<

[HunterHerne]

*blink blink* . . dude . . i never knew that . . i don't trust magic . . will have to make sure none of my GM's or players in my group ever learn of this <.<

Yeah, since that security mage you may be specced out to fight could actually be an AR Adept with Astral Perception, commanding drones.

[Irion]

Sorry, but beeing dual natured, exept for a spirit, sucks big time.
A ward is a real problem for your kind.
Have fun rolling this charisma+willpower-test against force*2.
Force 6, bad for you.
And even if you get through, you set off the alarm...

The easiest way to deal with this bullshit of dual natured is to replace it with astral perception.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, since that security mage you may be specced out to fight could actually be an AR Adept with Astral Perception, commanding drones.

i am NEVER specced out to fight ANYTHING magical that i can not simply hit with a blunt object the size of a motorcycle i'm afraid <.<;,

[HunterHerne]

Sorry, but beeing dual natured, exept for a spirit, sucks big time.
A ward is a real problem for your kind.
Have fun rolling this charisma+willpower-test against force*2.
Force 6, bad for you.
And even if you get through, you set off the alarm...

The easiest way to deal with this bullshit of dual natured is to replace it with astral perception.

I know it's a problem, but it's not supposed to be all upside. You just need to be imaginitive with how you deal with it. In a Ghoul Warren, being able to put up Wards on the walls will help protect you from the annoying mages that will probably come to slaughter you. And so will putting smaller wards around the open areas, since the creator can freely choose who can go through. Even if not strictly allowed at all times, I would give all ghouls that live in the area the homefield advantage, there, as they should be able to pick there way between the barriers.

Dual Natured is a hurdle for offence, but it can be a boon for defense.

[Irion]

Sorry, it is more of a drawback than a boni in any way.

How is it a good defance if any mage can fry your ass? If you can be burned on both planes on the same time.

And so will putting smaller wards around the open areas, since the creator can freely choose who can go through.

But so what? You are still able to cast a spell on the target behind the ward...

[HunterHerne]

Sorry, it is more of a drawback than a boni in any way.

How is it a good defance if any mage can fry your ass? If you can be burned on both planes on the same time.


But so what? You are still able to cast a spell on the target behind the ward...

It'll provide bonus dice on the resistance test, which is better then nothing, and if the mage isn't in person, the ward provides a negative dice pool modifier to astral perception, meaning, no, he might not see you.

[CanRay]

i am NEVER specced out to fight ANYTHING magical that i can not simply hit with a blunt object the size of a motorcycle i'm afraid <.<;,

I had a Pixie Magical Adept that threw Dumpsters around with magic, and used them as Taxis when the group was too poor to pay Ghoul Cab.

[Stahlseele]

The one time i DID try magic . . it was underwhelmingly weak . .

[CanRay]

I get the feeling that I was running the magic rules wrong. Will try to do better if I ever get to play.

*Sighs* IF!

[HunterHerne]

I get the feeling that I was running the magic rules wrong. Will try to do better if I ever get to play.

*Sighs* IF!

Did your game not pan out?

[Stahlseele]

I get the feeling that I was running the magic rules wrong. Will try to do better if I ever get to play.

*Sighs* IF!

Repeat after me:
The Magic System gets stronger the less the GM understands it!
The Matrix System gets weaker the less the GM understands IT!

[CanRay]

Did your game not pan out?

Of the three groups... One *MIGHT*. OK, maybe I'm not giving them credit enough, I am a new person to them, so a stranger whose got "Mad Rep" in the Shadowrun world might intimidate a group just getting into it...

The other two just fell apart like all the others I've tried for 20-years.

EDIT: Back on topic, I'm working on a character concept for my writing (I can rely on that at least somewhat) for a Physical Adept Troll walking The Way Of The Warrior with a Cyberarm (And a story behind that, of course). Thoughts?

[Stahlseele]

Of the three groups... One *MIGHT*. OK, maybe I'm not giving them credit enough, I am a new person to them, so a stranger whose got "Mad Rep" in the Shadowrun world might intimidate a group just getting into it...

The other two just fell apart like all the others I've tried for 20-years.

EDIT: Back on topic, I'm working on a character concept for my writing (I can rely on that at least somewhat) for a Physical Adept Troll walking The Way Of The Warrior with a Cyberarm (And a story behind that, of course). Thoughts?

Sounds like my kinda guy!