Fallout from first time GM, Various Rules Clarifications Options

[lunavoco]

My wife's a first time GM. We just finished "On the Run" and had a great time. We made a few odd rules calls just to speed the game along and now that it's over I'd like to know how things are supposed to run.

1) Burst Fire Grenade Launchers: handle each grenade individually? Treat as single grenade with a bonus to DV?

2) I hacked into Ticket Master 2070 to get ticket to a show. According to RAW, how am i going to get caught while in the system? What do i need to be concerned about?

2b) How do YOU run this? What happens to your players once they hack into a site? What do they need to be concerned about?

3) Anyone else feel that the sample enemies (Ghost, Red Samurai) are a little under powered?

[Traul]

1) Burst Fire Grenade Launchers: handle each grenade individually? Treat as single grenade with a bonus to DV?

That's the FIRST question? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) We need a new mohawk color, pink won't do.

3) Anyone else feel that the sample enemies (Ghost, Red Samurai) are a little under powered?

They are. Give them a tacnet, specializations and they should be closer to a real threat. The Red Samurai armor is in Arsenal.

[CanRay]

That's the FIRST question? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) We need a new mohawk color, pink won't do.

No, that's about a 10 on the 'hawk scale.

[Stahlseele]

Technically, the first Question was answered in Bogota!
Wether or not you LIKE that Answer, is a completely different Question i am afraid ^^

[HunterHerne]

Technically, the first Question was answered in Bogota!
Wether or not you LIKE that Answer, is a completely different Question i am afraid ^^

Answer makes sense to me. Less chance of resisting it all, less chance of outright kill.

[Method]

The rules for Overlapping Grenade Damage were worse before playtesting. Unfortunately they didn't go far enough to curb the insanity.

I would suggest you continue to reduce the power by half for each additional grenade. For example: if you have grenades A, B and C make the DV = [A + (0.5xB) + (0.25xC)] and so on. So a burst of three frags (12P) would do 21P for example.

Alternately, calculate the damage as you would a burst from a firearm, except increase the DV by +3 for each additional round instead of +1. So a burst of three frags (12P) would do 18P, for example.

I would also suggest a rule that only the base damage of a single grenade is compared to Armor to determine physical vs stun (or penetration in the case of Vehicle armor).

But honestly, if you think the rules for Overlapping Grenade Blast are broken, you should consider how a burst fire grenade launcher made it into the hands of a starting character in your game. The big guns in War! (and the insane damage they do) aren't really intended for your standard SR game.

[CanRay]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Chunky Salsa!

[HunterHerne]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Chunky Salsa!

According to War!, that's "Pureed Salsa".

[CanRay]

According to War!, that's "Pureed Salsa".

Haven't gotten to that part of the re-read yet.

[Method]

As for question #2:

Once you are inside a node you have to watch out for random checks by patrolling IC and/or (especially) spiders. IC will often patrol a node and randomly Analyze icons to detect intruders. Spiders will do the same, but will usually have a higher DP and are more likely to notice anomalies. If you try to perform any tasks that are above your authorized access level, you will do so at a modifier and the Node will get to roll Firewall and Analyze to bust you again (Unwired page 67, this is subject to some debate). Last but not least, there's always the possibility that any file you attempt to access will have a Data Bomb, which if triggered can blow you up, trigger an alert or crash the node (which is sure to alert security).

And after you're detected, well thats when the fun really starts...

So yeah, there are plenty of things to worry about once you're in.

[Aerospider]

In terms of strength of security, I'd make it pretty good for something like Ticket Master. Theirs is the kind of product that has attracted unscrupulous attention for many decades and there's a lot of money to be made very quickly. One thing I would consider a must is for security and admin users to need a passkey, without which a hacker simply won't get in and is therefore limited to user permissions like the rest of the public.

[CanRay]

Actually, some of their security is in obscurity. They only allow external sites to use dial-up POTS connections for security purposes, while dedicated sites (Performance areas, like Arenas, which have their own security) have a very secure VPN. At least, they did a few years ago. Might have changed.

But the Shadowrun equivalent is a Hardwired connection only using Matrix 1.0 architecture that CommLinks just can't grok, even with conversion programs. Even Bull's Cyberdeck couldn't do anything to it any longer if you're doing it from a storefront or some such. Trying to get at it from other areas are still hardwire connections with extensive security and Grey IC at least.

Now, if it was one of their more ghetto competitors that deal with lesser acts, then you're probably looking at only decent security, with a Spider keeping tabs on things to ensure some scalper doesn't buy up 10,000 tickets at a time for a 25,000 seat event.

[Faraday]

No, that's about a 10 on the 'hawk scale.

Agreed. Taking it to 11 would involve a troll with a pair of full auto grenade launchers.

[CanRay]

Agreed. Taking it to 11 would involve a troll with a pair of full auto grenade launchers.

12 would be a face working with a team of trolls that do that, and drives them into the battle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

I thought FA grenade launchers existed IRL already? Someone posted a link about it a while ago, but I'm not the gun nut here.

[Stahlseele]

i ain't either, but i think it may have been me.
and yes, full auto grenade launchers do exist.
but they are crew served weapons like HMG's.

[Traul]

And HMGs are troll-served in Shadowrun. The circle is complete.

[lunavoco]

Using core rules we built two characters: My wife's Ork Sniper adept and my Technomancer Exploit/Hack on the fly specialist. In our focused areas we each roll ~18 dice. The ork rolls more dice on firearms test than a red samurai, has -way- more armor, but has the same initiative and passes. I've been round the block a time or two and built both characters. My character is absolutely black hat and relatively worthless in combat. The ork OTOH deserves a 12 inch pink Mohawk. To be fair, this was the only scene that deserves the moniker. The rest of the campaign was pretty cloak and dagger.

1) I don;t have Bogota! Is it pretty much that grenades 2 & 3 add half damage to grenade 1? IE 10P burst = 20P? Does AP change at all?

Method: She's got an ArmTech MGL-12 Modified to BF using Arsenal's rules. Legal at char-gen? Or, leagal but on the other side of munchkin-ish?


2) Method & Aerospider: So my hack on the fly rolls are great and i get in scott free. No alarms were set off while breaking in. We house ruled that there would be an agent running analyze on everyone in the node. The frequency of this analyze was 1 scan every (7-rating of agent) passes. This meant that I got 3 complex actions in between scans. The agent is rolling Pilot + Analyze on an extended test, threshold = my stealth (13 = CF+Thread+Sprite assistance.)


If i hacked in with Admin access (not hard with 18 pool) there shouldn't be anything outside of my access level.

If I did do something that was outside of my pay grade, would the node get to keep it's success on it's Firewall+Analyze roll? IE, would they be cumulative with the roll to detect next mistake i made?

I've read the rules over and over again, but it's just not sticking. Does this sound reasonable for a company with a security rating of ~5 out of 6?

I'll re-re-read the section on passkeys again. That's a good idea.


CanRay: That's a high security system, but they'd want to weigh their security against the hassle of trouble shooting/doing regular business. I think I'll rule that no PC interact-able system runs that way. It's not good for business.

[CanRay]

i ain't either, but i think it may have been me.
and yes, full auto grenade launchers do exist.
but they are crew served weapons like HMG's.

When they were first being fielded, they were being designed to be man-portable by the designer, apparently. Didn't work that way, but they were great when mounted on helicopters and light vehicles. And on Tripods at firebases, of course.

And HMGs are troll-served in Shadowrun. The circle is complete.

Not quite. MMGs are the LMGs for Trolls. HMGs are still massive mothers. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they just figured out a way to make the "Ma Deuce" work with caseless ammo and still called it a day, the way they keep failing to find a replacement for the old war machine!

[Dakka Dakka]

I thought FA grenade launchers existed IRL already? Someone posted a link about it a while ago, but I'm not the gun nut here.

They do exist and have been around for some time.
The problem is that the usage of such weapons (in the hand of the PCs or the opposition) is not much fun. Either it makes those runs that do not require stealth incredibly easy or it means TPK.

[CanRay]

First time I ran a demo of Shadowrun at a con, I had an Adept using a Single-Shot Grenade Launcher as a ghetto mortar with a watcher spirit doing corrections for him.

The group literally stood around while 40mm grenades fell around them and they were covered in joytoy guts.

[Aerospider]

The agent is rolling Pilot + Analyze on an extended test, threshold = my stealth (13 = CF+Thread+Sprite assistance.)

Analyse is never an extended test - unless that's part of your house rule.

If i hacked in with Admin access (not hard with 18 pool) there shouldn't be anything outside of my access level.

True, insofar as what the legitimate admin can do. Nodes can be set-up so that certain actions are not permitted to anyone.

If I did do something that was outside of my pay grade, would the node get to keep it's success on it's Firewall+Analyze roll? IE, would they be cumulative with the roll to detect next mistake i made?

No. That's quite akin to the security tally of SR3 which is presented as an optional rule in Unwired.

I've read the rules over and over again, but it's just not sticking. Does this sound reasonable for a company with a security rating of ~5 out of 6?

It's widely thought that hacking is too easy in SR4, but I think there are good reasons for it being so - namely fun and realism. The biggest and best reason as to why half the populace aren't spoofing their lifestyles is that they simply don't want to, for the same reasons you don't commit every possible crime you might conceivably get away with. Remember that, as has always been the case, most criminals are caught rather than stopped. It shouldn't massively challenge a good runner to score some free tickets, but where he has to be careful is in covering his tracks. The access log will need an edit and the ticket records made to look right, which may mean financial transaction codes, a genuine SIN, etc. A few holes and the prize may be made worthless or even allow a trap for you to be set at the gig itself...

[Method]

1) I don't have Bogota! Is it pretty much that grenades 2 & 3 add half damage to grenade 1? IE 10P burst = 20P? Does AP change at all?

Just to avoid confusion, the rule you are looking for is in the book titled "War!". Some here use the name "Bogota!" in a derogatory fashion because they don't like the book. You probably know this already, but I thought I'd spell it out just in case you didn't. And yes, your example is correct by RAW.

Method: She's got an ArmTech MGL-12 Modified to BF using Arsenal's rules. Legal at char-gen? Or, leagal but on the other side of munchkin-ish?

Anything I have to say about this is only relevant if you are using the RAW character gen rules. What you do at your table is up to you. Technically by the rules she can get an MGL-12 at char gen. She can also get the parts needed for the modification. Its up to your GM if he/she is going to allow modified weapons at char gen. Having said that, you should be aware that allowing the unrestricted use of such a weapon sets a certain tone and power level for your game that some might not enjoy. The other thing you need to keep in mind is that SR has a different balance than some other RPGs. Its very easy to dish out massive amounts of damage, but its much harder to resist it. You mentioned that the elite opposition seemed too easy to kill; just remember that anything your characters can use against their opposition, their opposition can use against them. I doubt they would find your PC's all that hard to kill either.

2) Method & Aerospider: So my hack on the fly rolls are great and i get in scott free...

I think Aerospider covered this.

[Loch]

1) I don;t have Bogota! Is it pretty much that grenades 2 & 3 add half damage to grenade 1? IE 10P burst = 20P? Does AP change at all?

Method: She's got an ArmTech MGL-12 Modified to BF using Arsenal's rules. Legal at char-gen? Or, leagal but on the other side of munchkin-ish?

The MGL-18 from Bogota! comes with software that coordinates the grenades' trajectories in the air to ensure that they all impact and detonate within a few centimeters of each other. If you don't have that, things get a little weird. Either you rule it as firing separate, independent grenades, or you can just apply the regular burst rules to the grenade blast (i.e., a short wide burst with HE grenades would just be 10P DV and impose a -3 penalty to dodge the explosion). The rules basically don't cover a grenade launcher shooting bursts without the aid of MRSI software.

[Zoot]

She's got an ArmTech MGL-12 Modified to BF using Arsenal's rules.

Added to my shopping list