House or RAW?, Tacnet question Options

[AppliedCheese]

For some reason it is deep in my brain that tacnets require 4^(rating) sensors to add their bonus.

So + 1 needs 4 sensors linked
+2 need 16
+3 64
+4 256.

Anytime the sensor minimum isn't met, the net is degraded to next level down, even if it is higher software.

I can not find the relevant info in unwired. Am I on target or remembering an old house rule?

[Ascalaphus]

For some reason it is deep in my brain that tacnets require 4^(rating) sensors to add their bonus.

So + 1 needs 4 sensors linked
+2 need 16
+3 64
+4 256.

Anytime the sensor minimum isn't met, the net is degraded to next level down, even if it is higher software.

I can not find the relevant info in unwired. Am I on target or remembering an old house rule?

Sounds like an old house rule. RAW is something like 2*Rating sensor channels per participant, and the worst participant drags the tacnet rating down to his level.

[Miri]

Indeed, RAW is 2x rating sensor channels and at least 2+rating participants to get the full bonus. Drones only contribute as many sensors channels as their sensor rating.

[Draco18s]

and the worst participant drags the tacnet rating down to his level.

Actually, the worst participant either:

a) can't join at all
or
b) makes the entire system shut off for everybody

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Actually, the worst participant either:

a) can't join at all
or
b) makes the entire system shut off for everybody

Why do you say that? At worst, the Tacnet operates at the lowest of the Participants. If you have 5 people with a Tacnet Rating 3 operating, and a character who can only support a Tacnet 2 links up, the system only provides bonuses at Rating 2 from that point. Why wouild it shut down, and why would it not allow the lower rated guy to link in? Now, the other particiapnts on the Tacnet may not let him link in, but that is a different thing altogether.

[Draco18s]

Why wouild it shut down, and why would it not allow the lower rated guy to link in?

Because the rules say so. It says that a person cannot join the tacnet if he can't provide enough sensor channels.

This results in scenario A.

Scenario B is an extension where the rules make no indication that it operates at a "lower level" if not enough sensor channels are supplied and thus cannot function at all without enough channels from all participants.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because the rules say so. It says that a person cannot join the tacnet if he can't provide enough sensor channels.

This results in scenario A.

Scenario B is an extension where the rules make no indication that it operates at a "lower level" if not enough sensor channels are supplied and thus cannot function at all without enough channels from all participants.

So, you set it at Rating 2... Done... You can have 50 guys all at rating 2 in the same net.
I agree that it would not work as Rating 2 for one guy and Rating 3 for another, but you can run software at lower ratings than it has. It is in the rules.

[Warlordtheft]

Indeed, RAW is 2x rating sensor channels and at least 2+rating participants to get the full bonus. Drones only contribute as many sensors channels as their sensor rating.

Unless of course you decide to upgrade the drones sensor package. This can get quite fun....

BTW-as I understand it a Drone counts as a participant and can recieve tacnet bonuses..

[Miri]

Unless of course you decide to upgrade the drones sensor package. This can get quite fun....

BTW-as I understand it a Drone counts as a participant and can recieve tacnet bonuses..

Yes a drone can count as a participant and receive bonuses. However the rules for tacnets specifically say that drones can only contribute as many channels as their sensor rating. So even tricking out your drone with the best sensors you can the best they can do is a rating 3 tacnet since you need 2 * (tacnet rating) worth of channels.

[Yerameyahu]

IIRC, they don't 'specifically' say that. They say that drone *can* contribute channels=Sensor. AFAIK, this is merely another shorthand (just as Sensor itself is), so there's no reason drones can't contribute individual channels the same way a person does.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

IIRC, they don't 'specifically' say that. They say that drone *can* contribute channels=Sensor. AFAIK, this is merely another shorthand (just as Sensor itself is), so there's no reason drones can't contribute individual channels the same way a person does.

And this is how we do it. Not that it matters much anyways, we have yet to actually use a Rating 4 Tacnet in game.

[Miri]

Unwired page 125.

"Sensor Systems: Data acquired from worn, carried,
or mounted sensor systems of various types (cameras, microphones,
range finders, motion sensors, etc.) may also be
contributed to the network as a sensor channel. Drones sensor
systems also count; each drone can supply a number of sensor
channels equal to its Sensor rating."

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[Warlordtheft]

Miri, the problem with that is that once you meddle with the sensor package there is no longer an overall rating. The overall rating is a shorthanded sensor rating, and that is the number you use if you don't modify the sensors.

So do you go with the rating 6 camera or the rating 4 ultra-wideband radar.
Also note that thermo, lowlight, regular vision, shotgun mike and so forth count as seperate channels.

[Miri]

Miri, the problem with that is that once you meddle with the sensor package there is no longer an overall rating. The overall rating is a shorthanded sensor rating, and that is the number you use if you don't modify the sensors.

So do you go with the rating 6 camera or the rating 4 ultra-wideband radar.
Also note that thermo, lowlight, regular vision, shotgun mike and so forth count as seperate channels.

There is a nice big paragraph in 4A, page 334 to determine what the rating of the sensor suite is if you have different rated sensor modules. In the case of your above example of a rating 6 camera and rating 4 radar, the overall package would be a rating 5 suite.

As far as the thermo, lowlight, regular vision, shotgun mike counting as separate channels, that is all fine and dandy.. but the drone still can't contribute more channels then its overall sensor rating. A drone can only contribute between 1 and 6 channels because there are no sensor modules that go over rating 6 to bring the average up.

[Warlordtheft]

There is a nice big paragraph in 4A, page 334 to determine what the rating of the sensor suite is if you have different rated sensor modules. In the case of your above example of a rating 6 camera and rating 4 radar, the overall package would be a rating 5 suite.

As far as the thermo, lowlight, regular vision, shotgun mike counting as separate channels, that is all fine and dandy.. but the drone still can't contribute more channels then its overall sensor rating. A drone can only contribute between 1 and 6 channels because there are no sensor modules that go over rating 6 to bring the average up.

The problem is that the rating is higher with one rating 6 sensor rather than a rating 6 plus a rating 4 or less sensor. So if you shut down/remove the rating 4 sensor the sensor rating goes up? This to me makes no sense from a logic stand point. Note, you're right by RAW from what you have quoted-but I've kinda given up on that rule cause it seems to be one of those instances where a serious errata/rules rewrite is needed.

[Miri]

If you are using a stock Doberman, it has a sensor rating 3 and can only contribute 3 channels, enough to take part in a Tacnet rating 1.

If you decide to trick out your Doberman with a rating 6 camera, a motion sensor and a rating 4 ultrawideband radar then your sensor rating for all that is 5 (the motion sensor doesn't have a rating and is thus not used in the calculation) and can participate in a rating 2 tacnet. Turn off the wideband radar and it will go up to a 6 allowing you to participate in a rating 3 tacnet.

Once you start defining with detail what is in the senor module you have to keep its specifics in mind and recalculate what is going on on the fly. If you just say, its a stock rating 3 sensor thats the end of it there, if you upgrade it to a stock rating 6 sensor then thats it. Once you start defining what is in the sensor you have to start keeping track of what is turned on or off and or is working in that environment.

If you are using a drone for a tacnet buddy then you are well served getting a single rating 6 camera with 6 vision options (plus the standard vision and generic microphone). That gives you a rating 6 sensor and you pick the 6 input channels that it will dedicate to your rating 3 or less tacnet.

[Draco18s]

If you decide to trick out your Doberman with a rating 6 camera, a motion sensor and a rating 4 ultrawideband radar then your sensor rating for all that is 5 and can participate in a rating 2 tacnet. Turning off the wideband radar will you to participate in a rating 3 tacnet.

This.
Makes.
No.
Logical.
Sense.

[Miri]

This.
Makes.
No.
Logical.
Sense.

The explain why it doesn't make logical sense, cause it makes perfect sense to me.

[Ascalaphus]

Yes, the Sensor rules are busted, and because TacNets rely on them, so are the TacNet rules.

I've used a house rule whereby the TacNet worked a bit differently. To participate, you needed a camera, smartlink and gps, so the net could create a composite picture of the battlefield. Then, against any target, everyone used the best (= lowest penalty) visibility that any member of the TacNet enjoyed. And of course it tracked ammo and medical condition.

[Draco18s]

The explain why it doesn't make logical sense, cause it makes perfect sense to me.

By REMOVING a sensor channel the tacnet gets BETTER?

[Miri]

By REMOVING a sensor channel the tacnet gets BETTER?

The radar doesn't provide as much detail as the camera does, it is afterall a lower rated module. Since you have to take the average if more then one sensor is running the radar drags it down. Find yourself a Rating 5 or 6 radar (since you round up) and your good to go with a rating 6 overall sensor suite.

[Bigity]

That doesn't matter.

Information is removed from the tacnet. This is not how you upgrade it logically.

[Draco18s]

The radar doesn't provide as much detail as the camera does, it is afterall a lower rated module. Since you have to take the average if more then one sensor is running the radar drags it down. Find yourself a Rating 5 or 6 radar (since you round up) and your good to go with a rating 6 overall sensor suite.

So.

If I have a computer with 1 stick of RAM (4GB).
And I add a second stick (2GB).
It's "the same" as if I replaced that 4GB stick with a 3GB stick?

[Miri]

You know what.. never mind. Figuring out how a drones sensors contribute to a tacnet seems very straightforward to me. If you have problems with it.. just don't put anything other then a rating 2, 4, or 6 module into the drone so it can contribute to a rating 1, 2, or 3 tacnet without issue.

[Bigity]

Just because the rules are clear doesn't mean they makes sense.

That's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)