[X] My Assistant

[Aerospider]

So.

If I have a computer with 1 stick of RAM (4GB).
And I add a second stick (2GB).
It's "the same" as if I replaced that 4GB stick with a 3GB stick?

That's not a great analogy as storage memory is arithmetically cumulative whilst the effectiveness of different sensors in unison are not.

The way the sensor rules are designed is that the overall effectiveness is the average rating, but whilst a sensor array consisting of only a rating 6 camera is reduced to 5 by a rating 4 motion detector, the utility of the array is much improved by no longer being purely visual. Whenever you are only using the camera for your sensing needs you use the full 6. So that's all well and good.

I speculate that the tacnet rules are trying to imply that the sensor rating is relevant to the number of channels that can be offered because a minimum level of sophistication is required by each channel to compliment the others in such a way as to form a useful member of the net. So the rating 4 sensor brings down the capacity for interplay within the channels the array offers. That's the only way I can think of to make sense of it.

What I think is not included in the rules (presumably for simplicity) is the ability to ignore sensors that can't pull their weight. If that rating 6 camera can offer the full 6 channels by itself then that should be all fine regardless of whatever else is available. It comes down to whether one can pick and choose the sensor rating according to the various sensor combinations available. You can do so outside of a tacnet, so if RAW forbids it within a tacnet then that's the bit that needs overturning.

[Ascalaphus]

... I speculate that the tacnet rules are trying to imply ...

I really don't think they had any specific idea in mind there. The Sensor rules are unintuitive and it probably confused the writers too. And then SR4A adds camera options.

[Draco18s]

That's not a great analogy as storage memory is arithmetically cumulative whilst the effectiveness of different sensors in unison are not.

I'll agree with this conceptually, but just because the "average sensor rating" is used when "generic sensor" needs to be rolled, doesn't mean that that's the BEST it can do.

I speculate that the tacnet rules are trying to imply that the sensor rating is relevant to the number of channels that can be offered because a minimum level of sophistication is required by each channel to compliment the others in such a way as to form a useful member of the net. So the rating 4 sensor brings down the capacity for interplay within the channels the array offers. That's the only way I can think of to make sense of it.

This, on the other hand, is technical gibberish. Lampshadium, if you will.

For example I have a Really Fancy Camera on my drone, but it only points forward and gives me a 60 degree field of view (your average RL not-a-phone camera has a FOV of about 60). We'll call it rating 6. It's also the only "sensor" this drone has, so its average sensor rating is 6 (great for my tacnet 3!).

But I want more, I want a rear-view camera for when I'm backing that drone up and the one I have isn't on a swivel mount. I don't use this camera much, so I don't need it to be very high res (it's going to be taking up a tiny corner of my screen anyway). It's got a wider FOV, about 90 degrees, so things look kinda flat, so it's only rating 4, but hey, I've got a wider area of vision covered by my drone's sensors.

Wait a sec, my tacnet rating decreased? The additional input and wider field of view (that is, a total of 150 degrees around covered) meant my tacnet couldn't function as well!?

Simply put:
There no reason, ever that "less information is better" for tacnets. The detail might be grainy, but if its the only data available on that channel, it's always better than nothing.

[Miri]

But I want more, I want a rear-view camera for when I'm backing that drone up and the one I have isn't on a swivel mount. I don't use this camera much, so I don't need it to be very high res (it's going to be taking up a tiny corner of my screen anyway). It's got a wider FOV, about 90 degrees, so things look kinda flat, so it's only rating 4, but hey, I've got a wider area of vision covered by my drone's sensors.

Wait a sec, my tacnet rating decreased? The additional input and wider field of view (that is, a total of 150 degrees around covered) meant my tacnet couldn't function as well!?

Simply put:
There no reason, ever that "less information is better" for tacnets. The detail might be grainy, but if its the only data available on that channel, it's always better than nothing.

If you know that rear facing camera is less quality and you are not going to be using it all that often, and your tacnet channels are already filled via the front facing camera, why would you put that rear facing camera into the tacnet stream to begin with?

[Aerospider]

I'll agree with this conceptually, but just because the "average sensor rating" is used when "generic sensor" needs to be rolled, doesn't mean that that's the BEST it can do.



This, on the other hand, is technical gibberish. Lampshadium, if you will.

For example I have a Really Fancy Camera on my drone, but it only points forward and gives me a 60 degree field of view (your average RL not-a-phone camera has a FOV of about 60). We'll call it rating 6. It's also the only "sensor" this drone has, so its average sensor rating is 6 (great for my tacnet 3!).

But I want more, I want a rear-view camera for when I'm backing that drone up and the one I have isn't on a swivel mount. I don't use this camera much, so I don't need it to be very high res (it's going to be taking up a tiny corner of my screen anyway). It's got a wider FOV, about 90 degrees, so things look kinda flat, so it's only rating 4, but hey, I've got a wider area of vision covered by my drone's sensors.

Wait a sec, my tacnet rating decreased? The additional input and wider field of view (that is, a total of 150 degrees around covered) meant my tacnet couldn't function as well!?

Simply put:
There no reason, ever that "less information is better" for tacnets. The detail might be grainy, but if its the only data available on that channel, it's always better than nothing.

I'll concede that my post was not a lot more than off-the-top-of-my-head supposition, but you have ignored what it was saying. IF you are including that rating 4 sensor in the sensor channels you are providing to the tacnet (either by choice or compulsion by RAW or GM) then my angle was that the rating 4 sensor is not sophisticated enough to work in conjunction with as many as 5 other channels to the degree required by a tacsoft.

As I thought I made clear, it's not an issue of quantity of information but the ability for the sensor channels to work together in forming a detailed account of the drone's environment for the tacsoft to draw accurate and beneficial conclusions.

That's not gibberish or logically unsound, but it is not a strongly substantiated interpretation of the RAW implications so I won't be nailing my colours to this particular mast.

[Angry Ork]

Simple solution, only the highest rated sensor is looked at when determing what the tacnet gets from the drone.

[DMiller]

Our HOUSE RULE is simpler:

Standard drones can not count towards TACNET. A standard drone can contribute sensor channels equal to its sensor rating to an individual’s sensor channel input to the TACNET by being subscribed to that person’s PAN. Bio-Drones however can contribute to TACNET as with proper augmentation they can be treated as trained meta-humans. Bio-drones are treated as meta-humans for the purposes of TACNET so their augmentations and senses provide the sensor inputs.

This house rule makes it so that not every person with combat experience is running around with TACNET 3 or 4 for the cost of a few thousand nuyen. It helps to slow the power creep that happens oh so quickly in MagicRun.

Remember the is a total house rule so YMMV.

-D

[Miri]

To be honest, it isn't that hard to get the 8 channels needed for a rating 4 tacnet. A good set of cyber eyes, some ear buds, bio-monitor. *shrug*

[Aerospider]

To be honest, it isn't that hard to get the 8 channels needed for a rating 4 tacnet. A good set of cyber eyes, some ear buds, bio-monitor. *shrug*

Bio-monitor...?

[Draco18s]

Bio-monitor...?

It counts for some reason. :\

[Ascalaphus]

Sure it does. It measures the wound levels of your allies, and calculates how much it will hinder them, which is relevant to your cooperation in battle.

[Aerospider]

Sure it does. It measures the wound levels of your allies, and calculates how much it will hinder them, which is relevant to your cooperation in battle.

So which tests would you consider it relevant to exactly...?

[Ascalaphus]

So which tests would you consider it relevant to exactly...?

A lot of the +X from TacNet is because the participants can coordinate angles of fire and such. So it matters to know what kind of performance you can expect from the other teammembers.

[Warlordtheft]

I've always run it as simply count all sensor channels all the time. It is not worth the book keeping effort for determining that extra die or not applies to a specific situation.

[Zoot]

The sensible solution seems to be to use the sensor rating for stock drones but if you choose to modify the sensors on the drone, you need to determine exactly what sensors it has - each sensor supplies one data channel, the ratings are irrelevant.

Standard sensor packages are detailed on page 105, Arsenal

VEHICLE SENSORS
All vehicles (including drones) come readily equipped with a sensor package, whose size depends on the size of the vehicle (see the Sensor Packages table, p. 325, SR4). Each sensor package has a Capacity that determines the amount of sensors that can fit into the system. In general, a standard vehicle sensor package (Capacity 12), will contain the following sensors:
• Atmosphere Sensor (taking up 1 Capacity)
• 2 Cameras (front and back, taking up 2 Capacity)
• 2 Laser Range Finders (front and back, taking up 2 Capacity)
• 2 Motion Sensors (front and back, taking up 2 Capacity)
• Radar (taking up 5 Capacity)
these sensors are described on p. 59 and pp. 325–326, SR4.
Drones feature smaller capacities and so will have fewer sensors; small drones and smaller typically drop the radar in favor or other sensors. At the gamemaster’s discretion, any particular vehicle may come fitted with a different combination of sensors, as long as they don’t exceed the package’s Capacity. Likewise, cameras and microphones may come equipped with addition vision or audio enhancements (see pp. 323–324, SR4).

As with everything else, the default device rating for each sensor should be 3. Whether camera upgrades take up sensor package slots is not specified - GM decision.

[MikeKozar]

Lots of good houserule ideas here. I think in the future I'll just run Tacnets as a "Friends in Firefight" bonus of +1 to +4, similar to the "Friends in Melee" bonus. I'm going to require smartguns to participate in the FiF bonus, as per Ascalaphus' houserule, and have anyone with reasonable line of sight on the target contribute (e.g., not if you're hiding behind a wall or shooting in the opposite direction). I'll ignore the sensor rating requirement for the more expensive tacnets and just make it a team aiming thing up to the level of the TacNet, that seems like more fun. I really like Ascalaphus' idea of using it as a tactical command channel, kind of like the APC from Aliens - if you're kitted out properly, you automatically know the location, condition, and status of your allies and any enemies they have locked on to - otherwise, you need to actually spend Free Actions communicating.