Outdated tropes, That's so SR3.... Options

[suoq]

Warning: Taking the below too seriously may cause an increase in blood pressure.

Shadowrun is a dystopia: It's over. Metahumans in Shadowrun have more rights than many people today. The lowest exploited are meta-sapients and people are even fighting for their rights. Even ghouls have rights now and AIs are getting SINs in the 2070s. It's easier to deal with the MDC checkpoint in New York than to deal with TSA to fly to GenCon in 2011. The dystopia is over, please return to your homes and watch Tri-D.

People are afraid of Magic: Again, over. They're employees now, with stock options. They walk right through the millimeter wave radar because they don't have to carry a gun or be wired up. If anything, people are jealous of magic because it means job security, freedom to walk the streets tonight, and a good enough income to have a private seat at the club.

Seedy Fixers: That was a generation ago. If you want plausible deniability, then you need to go through professionals. Why fixers don't appear to work like the companies in "The Mechanic" or "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" and instead are Street Thugs like you find in this season of Missions is beyond me. This isn't the Wild West anymore. If you have a specific job with unusual requirements you hire a discrete contracting firm who can assemble a team for you to do the job.

Soy Food: There is plenty of good food. Even the first story in the SR4 book has a fishing boat (and you can buy one in Arsenal). Runner's Companion has piles of great food in their lifestyles section. Sure, the gangers are eating soy, but chances are you're on the top of the food chain because you have the ware, the contacts, and you're hanging out with mages, any one of whom could be pulling in stock options right now. And if you are a mage and eating soy we really need to talk about life decisions.

[Neurosis]

Blood...pressure...rising.

[Stahlseele]

Blood...pressure...rising.

u mad bro?

[Tanegar]

The only one of those points I even come close to disagreeing with is the first. The Sixth World still has strong dystopic elements, megacorporate power chief among them. For-profit entities, no matter how well-intentioned, make shitty governments. There's also widespread Balkanization: corps distrust each other, governments distrust each other, and corps and governments hate each others' guts. No cooperation on common goals here. Just because more people have more rights doesn't necessarily mean the world is getting better.

[Neraph]

[ Spoiler ]

Warning: Taking the below too seriously may cause an increase in blood pressure.

Shadowrun is a dystopia: It's over. Metahumans in Shadowrun have more rights than many people today. The lowest exploited are meta-sapients and people are even fighting for their rights. Even ghouls have rights now and AIs are getting SINs in the 2070s. It's easier to deal with the MDC checkpoint in New York than to deal with TSA to fly to GenCon in 2011. The dystopia is over, please return to your homes and watch Tri-D.

People are afraid of Magic: Again, over. They're employees now, with stock options. They walk right through the millimeter wave radar because they don't have to carry a gun or be wired up. If anything, people are jealous of magic because it means job security, freedom to walk the streets tonight, and a good enough income to have a private seat at the club.

Seedy Fixers: That was a generation ago. If you want plausible deniability, then you need to go through professionals. Why fixers don't appear to work like the companies in "The Mechanic" or "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" and instead are Street Thugs like you find in this season of Missions is beyond me. This isn't the Wild West anymore. If you have a specific job with unusual requirements you hire a discrete contracting firm who can assemble a team for you to do the job.

Soy Food: There is plenty of good food. Even the first story in the SR4 book has a fishing boat (and you can buy one in Arsenal). Runner's Companion has piles of great food in their lifestyles section. Sure, the gangers are eating soy, but chances are you're on the top of the food chain because you have the ware, the contacts, and you're hanging out with mages, any one of whom could be pulling in stock options right now. And if you are a mage and eating soy we really need to talk about life decisions.

El. Oh. El.

[Warlordtheft]

YMMV with each GM, but I find that to play up the dystopian feel you have to keep 20% is squatter or street, 50% of the population has a low lifestyle, 20% is middle lifestyle and 9 % are high lifestyles, the remaining 1% are luxury.

This means that 90% of the population eats soy on a regular basis.

People fear magic, not nessicarily mages though. And with insect spirits and shedhim in the news, the majority of the population is still afraid of magic.

Fixers: well like a good econimist once said, it depends.

Meta-rights: Yeah, everyone that has a SIN has rights. And those bonafides are solid as a rock. /sarcasm... Those rights on extend to certain jurisdictions (Just try and ask for a lawyer in the Pyramid after getting caught red handed, sin or no sin). Even in Seattle proper, you may just disappear if you slot off the wrong people.

[Seriously Mike]

Meta-rights: Yeah, everyone that has a SIN has rights. And those bonafides are solid as a rock. /sarcasm... Those rights on extend to certain jurisdictions (Just try and ask for a lawyer in the Pyramid after getting caught red handed, sin or no sin). Even in Seattle proper, you may just disappear if you slot off the wrong people.

If you have a SIN, you're traceable. That means, you screw up, cops know where to find you. You get screwed up by some SINless goon, cops don't know where to find them.

[Warlordtheft]

And what if that SIN disappears or is modified? It does happen...everyone relies on it in the developed areas as a bonafide ID, just like a drivers lisce is despite the fact that those are constantly faked...

J Smith was at two places at once---no really, the SIN tracker proves it!

[CanRay]

Warning: Taking the below too seriously may cause an increase in blood pressure.

I'll try and be careful.

Shadowrun is a dystopia: It's over. Metahumans in Shadowrun have more rights than many people today. The lowest exploited are meta-sapients and people are even fighting for their rights. Even ghouls have rights now and AIs are getting SINs in the 2070s. It's easier to deal with the MDC checkpoint in New York than to deal with TSA to fly to GenCon in 2011. The dystopia is over, please return to your homes and watch Tri-D.

Post-Cyberpunk. It's still a dystopia, it's just nice and shiny now! Until you look under the surface and realize they just painted over everything. And Simsense is used more than Tri-D, now that you can get a Trode Net to experience it without getting your head drilled.

Think about that for a moment.

As for Metahumans not being persecuted, it's more like what's going on today, they're not being OVERTLY persecuted. It's a nice, subtle, legal persecution. Three-piece suits instead of white robes.

AIs getting SINs is a marketing and development strategy. Who better to write codes than "Beings" who have code as their first language. Also, they're cheap workers, no health insurance, no retirement fund, no vacations... They do the work of ten or more programmers. Cost-Benefit Analysis anyone?

People are afraid of Magic: Again, over. They're employees now, with stock options. They walk right through the millimeter wave radar because they don't have to carry a gun or be wired up. If anything, people are jealous of magic because it means job security, freedom to walk the streets tonight, and a good enough income to have a private seat at the club.

They always were. Even in 1^st Ed. That said, people are getting more and more used to thinking of Magic as just another form of science...

Technomancy, now, that's just unnatural and WRONG!

Seedy Fixers: That was a generation ago. If you want plausible deniability, then you need to go through professionals. Why fixers don't appear to work like the companies in "The Mechanic" or "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" and instead are Street Thugs like you find in this season of Missions is beyond me. This isn't the Wild West anymore. If you have a specific job with unusual requirements you hire a discrete contracting firm who can assemble a team for you to do the job.

I don't know, this MacCallister guy seems pretty seedy. They're still around, just pushed to the bottom of the pool.

Don't forget that "Thug" used to be the fashion style of the 2050s, and was still in style in the "Retro Ironic" sort of way in the 2060s. It's totally over now.

Soy Food: There is plenty of good food. Even the first story in the SR4 book has a fishing boat (and you can buy one in Arsenal). Runner's Companion has piles of great food in their lifestyles section. Sure, the gangers are eating soy, but chances are you're on the top of the food chain because you have the ware, the contacts, and you're hanging out with mages, any one of whom could be pulling in stock options right now. And if you are a mage and eating soy we really need to talk about life decisions.

OK, this one is legit. But, honestly, I think the joke had gotten old and stale. Also, it gives alternatives and possibilities for other things a chance.

Also, just think about trying to protect a smuggled truck-and-reefer full of beef as it drives into town from a Troll Go-Gang. Good 'Run idea!

[explorator]

YMMV with each GM, but I find that to play up the dystopian feel you have to keep 20% is squatter or street, 50% of the population has a low lifestyle, 20% is middle lifestyle and 9 % are high lifestyles, the remaining 1% are luxury.

This means that 90% of the population eats soy on a regular basis.

I think by those parameters, we already live in a dystopian world.

“In 2007 U.S., the top 20 percent controlled about 84 percent of the wealth, while the bottom quintile controlled just 0.1 percent. The combined net worth of the bottom 40 percent, in fact, accounted for just 0.3 percent of the nation's wealth.”

I think many of Shadowrun’s middle-class mostly eats soy, but probably splurges on real food as often as the budget allows. I also have the impression that the quality of the soy-processor can make a big difference, with low-end ones producing foods that all taste kind of like french fries, and expensive models putting out some appetizing meals.

[CanRay]

I think by those parameters, we already live in a dystopian world.

“In 2007 U.S., the top 20 percent controlled about 84 percent of the wealth, while the bottom quintile controlled just 0.1 percent. The combined net worth of the bottom 40 percent, in fact, accounted for just 0.3 percent of the nation's wealth.”

"World of Class Warfare"?

[Stahlseele]

If you were to kill the 200 richest people in america and take their belongings away and give it the state, you could clear up the complete national debt.
or something like that, i've read . .

[CanRay]

Yeah, but that'd be hard to do. They have security guards and firearms. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, but that'd be hard to do. They have security guards and firearms. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yeah So?
America has Cops and the Army.
Much bigger Problem:
The rich ones have LAWYERS . .

[CanRay]

Which means they have Lawyers, Guns, and Money.

Thus you send The Envoy.

Or this guy.

[Stahlseele]

Which means they have Lawyers, Guns, and Money.

Thus you send The Envoy.

Or this guy.

I was thinking more along these lines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI
edit:
i'd have so much more respect for that kind of people, if their life really was like that . .

[IridiosDZ]

If you were to kill the 200 richest people in america and take their belongings away and give it the state, you could clear up the complete national debt.
or something like that, i've read . .

I'm not digging for the most recent info because it's late but your numbers are way off.

Fortune 400 combined wealth for 2010 was 1.37 trillion.

while the FY 2010 federal budget was 3.55 trillion.

That means the combined wealth of the top 400 American corporate entities could not even pay one years budget. The federal debt ceiling was 2.4 trillion and that had to be raised recently. The top 400 wouldn't be able to completely cover that alone. And you could only take the wealth of the richest only once.

[CanRay]

Hm, Canada's ~$567 Billion debt isn't looking nearly so bad right now... Go figure.

OK, bringing this back on topic: When the UCAS was formed, what happened to said combined debt? I mean, it was the US and Canada that incurred that debt, not the "United Canadian-American States", a whole new country! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Miri]

Usually when treaties like that are signed both parties take on each others debt load and obligations.. or so I figure. If they just dumped the debt like a hot potato I don't imagine other countries and AAA's would be all the willing to loan em more.

[CanRay]

Depending on the debt, the loss of lending rating might be the lesser of two evils.

How's it feeling, having a credit rating worse than "Monopoly Money Canada"?

...

OK, I'm sorry, I'm slightly drunk.

[Neraph]

If you were to kill the 200 richest people in america and take their belongings away and give it the state, you could clear up the complete national debt.
or something like that, i've read . .

EDIT: was beaten to it.

[LurkerOutThere]

I somewhat agree with all of what Suoq says except maybe the soy thing. I've always had a mental image of a lot of the agricultural belt in America having been handed over tot he NAN who don't have interest inf arming it, or having the roaming critter problem. In that kind of environment soy starts to become viable.


The biggest thing that Shadowrun has always had a problem for me is the macro ones. Where do the people in the barrens (and therefore all these wonderful gangs and other types) get their money. To have the dystopia or post-dystopia you have to have a lot of people barely eeking out a living under horrible conditions. I just don't see that as sustainable in a situation where you lack any kind of welfare/relief/aid and have lost any pretense of sustainability.

[LurkerOutThere]

RE: Fixers

Fixers are a tricky subject as for dramtic reasons there is quite a bit of bleed over for functons that J's and fixers do. A fixer bieng a street level thug makes sense in some situations, others they should be someone mroe refined and organized, but not too refined and organized. THe more organized you are the more ways to track you, the more easily it is to track you the better you can be traced back to the hands that hire you.

[kzt]

If you were to kill the 200 richest people in america and take their belongings away and give it the state, you could clear up the complete national debt.
or something like that, i've read . .

The stats I've heard was that you would have to confiscate all the wealth of every millionaire. Which is a lot more than 200 people. 3.1 million more. And you'd end up in just as deep a hole in 10 years, but now without any of the big taxpayers.

[kzt]

RE: Fixers

Fixers are a tricky subject as for dramtic reasons there is quite a bit of bleed over for functons that J's and fixers do. A fixer bieng a street level thug makes sense in some situations, others they should be someone mroe refined and organized, but not too refined and organized. THe more organized you are the more ways to track you, the more easily it is to track you the better you can be traced back to the hands that hire you.

If someone bugs you comlink they know everything you do. And it's not exactly hard if you are a corp that can afford to hire really skilled people to hack the gear of a one-man show that is typically not a computer security expert. Like LS or KE. Which are sovereign nations and can essentially do anything they want to anyone who isn't seriously important.

There is a lot of "and then the magic happens" to make the society as presented work. If you sweat the details it all comes apart in your hands.