New Code of Conduct Help Options

[Socinus]

I have a character who is a Buddhist monk (yes, you read that right).

With all the strictures on what Buddhist monks may do and must not do, I figured it was right for a Code of Conduct but for the life of me I cant really seem to put one together.

Buddhism has several key ethics:
To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā
To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)

Any ideas?

[Yerameyahu]

I mean… do all of those? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What's the question, whether those are correct?

Incidentally, what's non-sentient? Plants and fungi?

[Traul]

No stealing, no lying, no killing,... what exactly are you going to do in a run? And which runs are you going to accept?

[Socinus]

The character is a pacifist who works for the Lotus Throne sect of Tibetan Buddhist monks. He works to recover Tibetan and Buddhist artifacts and other historical treasures and documents important to Tibet and Buddhism.

He has some flexibility about his beliefs, but generally abides by a "I wont start something but I will finish it" policy. He cannot stop his teammates from doing bad things, but he can knock people out, do some pretty impressive movement, etc etc.

It helps that the character is in a VERY black trenchcoat game where we're unlikely to be handed an assignment that requires we blow up a school bus to take out the driver who is really a crime lord.

It will be a difficult play, but I like the idea of the challenge.

[Seriously Mike]

No stealing, no lying, no killing,... what exactly are you going to do in a run? And which runs are you going to accept?

Technically, spoofing computer systems ain't lying... *twiddles thumbs* And even if it is, there are other methods of gaining entry. Hacking monk, now that one's quite interesting.

[Traul]

Is the whole campaign about recovering Tibetan artifacts? If so, I could see how this does not constitue stealing for your character since he sees his monastery as the rightful owner.

If not, then you need a very strong reason for him in the shadows. It is not only about how he performs his runs. This code of conduct should lead him to refuse most jobs up front, including basic datasteals. Shadowrun is not the right game to play Lawful Good. It is mostly the "no stealing" part that bothers me.

[Mardrax]

If not, then you need a very strong reason for him in the shadows. It is not only about how he performs his runs. This code of conduct should lead him to refuse most jobs up front, including basic datasteals. Shadowrun is not the right game to play Lawful Good. It is mostly the "no stealing" part that bothers me.

Copying data isn't stealing it, like taking a photo of someone isn't abduction.

[suoq]

This process would be easier if you simply make up a religion based on how you imagine Buddhism to be instead of trying to be accurate to Buddhism. Some group of Mystical monks in Tibet with their own belief system. Yetiarians. Order of When the Eternally Surprised. Whatever. It doesn't matter.

Silly mode: You could take all the restrictions you want to take and then make him a member of some new religion based off of Cargo Cultists. That sound spectacularly fun.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Copying data isn't stealing it, like taking a photo of someone isn't abduction.

Breaking into a facility unlawfully is still "Taking" Acces that is not yours.
Playing a Buddhist is nigh Impossible if you go by the strictures. Additionally, there are a lot more strictures than the 4 Socinus listed that will have a bearing on how the character is played, if he wants a true rendering of Buddhism anyways.

Had a guy at our table that tried it. It was an abysmal failure. He was so "Flexible" with his interpretation of Buddhism that he should not have ever been a Buddhist. He would have fit right in at a Bund meeting.

[kzt]

It's a more flexible religion than people think. Medieval Japanese ninja and samurai were both Buddhists.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's a more flexible religion than people think. Medieval Japanese ninja and samurai were both Buddhists.

But they were not Good Buddhists if they Lied, Stole or Killed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Admitte, only the Monks are held to the highest standardsand strictures, but that is what the OP mentioned he was creating.

[Socinus]

But they were not Good Buddhists if they Lied, Stole or Killed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Admitte, only the Monks are held to the highest standardsand strictures, but that is what the OP mentioned he was creating.

Shaolin monks were Buddhist as well, they trained for fighting their entire lives and were not unknown to kill someone.

These were also ideals of behavior.

[TheOOB]

Proper buddist monks don't become shadowrunners, they become...monks. Being a shadowrunner, apart from the skill required, requires some moral flexibility that monks don't have. A vegan wouldn't take a job as a steak house food critic, and a monk won't take a job that involves stealing stuff and shooting people in the face for money.

[Dr.Rockso]

I think he could have some flexibility as a mage. That way you can aid the team by providing buffs/debuffs in combat situations, without committing violence yourself. But as it has been said, you'll have a hard time associating with a team of morally questionable criminals.

[nezumi]

Firstly, remember that there are different branches of Buddhism, and those branches change over time. Also, Buddhists (like all people) can draw upon greater moral causes when necessary; for instance, a Buddhist may mislead in order to save another person's life (is this a violation of the 'lying' rule? I'd think so.) If the Buddhist is helping the poor, he's justified in entering facilities which have been unjustly stolen from those people.

[Backgammon]

Now I may be completely wrong here and I hope my comments offend no one if I misunderstood things, but based on readings I did quite some time ago, Buddhism is fundamentally based on the principle that "All is sorrow", meaning everything - any physical object, any person, any animal - EVERYTHING, is just pain and suffering. You are just trying to push yourself reincarnation to reincarnation until you're no longer reincarnated, you attain a state of nothingness.

As such, there is not REALLY any such thing as a sacred temple artefact. It's just a THING and if someone steals it, you certainly aren't going to waste time trying to get it back. If you attached importance to an object, you failed.

But that's like the pure, undiluted version. Like Nezumi says, if I may paraphrase, theory and implemention are two different things. People are people, and our emotions and the gazillion OTHER things that influence our bahaviour aside from religion can be at odds with each other.

If anything, in a campaign based around this, I would just through all the conflicting theories at the character. "You shouldn't steal", "It's not stealing", "You shouldn't care", "I can't let them walk all over us", etc. Conflicts make good stories.

[suoq]

Firstly, remember that there are different branches of Buddhism, and those branches change over time. Also, Buddhists (like all people) can draw upon greater moral causes when necessary; for instance, a Buddhist may mislead in order to save another person's life (is this a violation of the 'lying' rule? I'd think so.) If the Buddhist is helping the poor, he's justified in entering facilities which have been unjustly stolen from those people.

I'm probably going to regret this, but I have to ask. Do you actually have some reference to all of this? Was there something I missed in the sūtras that led you to this conclusion? Or did this come from watching action films?

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Edit: It occurs to me, as I write that, that maybe action films can serve to bridge the gap instead of creating a larger gap. To this end, I will point to the man who makes films about breaking and entering, stealing, beating people up, killing people, ect, and his views on Buddhism.

http://jetli.com/jet/index.php?s=spirit&am...p;l=en#buddhism

[Draco18s]

Copying data isn't stealing it, like taking a photo of someone isn't abduction.

Read the stricture again.

"Not taking that which is not given."

Copying data which wasn't given to you, is in fact, stealing.

[Mardrax]

Read the stricture again.

"Not taking that which is not given."

Copying data which wasn't given to you, is in fact, stealing.

Even though you're not taking anything, just creating something new as an exact replica of something existing?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Even though you're not taking anything, just creating something new as an exact replica of something existing?

Even Still...
Of course, you can rationalize anything. And that is the Trap in such a situation; you start to rationalize everything away, and now the Code that you claim to follow means absolutely nothing.

[Draco18s]

Even though you're not taking anything, just creating something new as an exact replica of something existing?

Correct. Because what you are copying wasn't given to you. It was obtained through subterfuge.

You're trying to say that sneaking into a locked room and taking pictures of documents found in a secret drawer to be "legal" by Buddhism's strictures, whereas it isn't.

[nezumi]

I'm probably going to regret this, but I have to ask. Do you actually have some reference to all of this? Was there something I missed in the sūtras that led you to this conclusion? Or did this come from watching action films?

Are you asking how are there different branches of Buddhism, and it's quite feasible they'll change significantly with the rise of metahumans and magic? Or how people justify their ethical behavior based on circumstances?

[suoq]

Are you asking how are there different branches of Buddhism, and it's quite feasible they'll change significantly with the rise of metahumans and magic? Or how people justify their ethical behavior based on circumstances?

I'm asking how you, and for that matter, most of this thread, has such a codified view on Buddhism and yet with that view, they attempt to speak with authority, as if by trying to codify it, by defining it by something it isn't, they believe they understand it.

Reading this thread has been like watching Orthodox Jews talk about how to make the best BLT.

[Yerameyahu]

In the end, it's just fluff. It needn't be historically accurate/realistic. It's not like historical Buddhists were. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Redjack]

I realize this is mostly in context to Shadowrun and everyone is mostly playing nice, I just feel this thread is dancing on the edge of cliff... Please continue to play nice and keep it related and the mods will be smiling too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)