Interstate-90 in Seattle (Downtown-Council Island- Bellevue), Restricted Access? Options

[Askani'son]

Hey Folks,

Query about the road network in Seattle (circa 2052) based on the Seattle Sourcebook (SSB).

When referring to Council Island, the SSB talks about restricted road access on to the island via the I-90 bridge - pill boxes in place, access by appointment only, stop-and search, and only allowing a certain number of non-NAN citizens on to the island at any one time.

When referring to Bellevue, the SSB talks about limted access to Bellevue from Downtown via the I-90 bridge and via Route 520 (to the north of I-90) over the Evergreen Point Floating Bridge.

These two entries seem at odds to me - how can the I-90 provide access to Bellevue from Downtown, if the I-90 is restricted at Council Island. I find it hard to believe that the uber-security conscious SSC are going to allow Seattleites free access across the island.

Thoughts/counter-references?

Thanks!

[Method]

I don't know if you've ever been to Seattle, but the portions of I90 that cross Mercer island are mostly tunneled underground. There are special off ramps that lead to the surface streets, which could easily be secured with check points. Otherwise you can take I90 as a direct route straight across the island without really accessing it.

[Askani'son]

Hey Method,

Thanks alot for the help!

Nope, I've never been to Seattle - I currently live in Northern Ireland. Closest I got was living in Chicago for a year.

All of my suppositions regarding the metroplex are based on sourcebooks and Google Earth, which I use extensively for my game, and it doesn't make clear that access across Mercer Island is via tunnel. Being able to cross Council Island would certainly make my life a little easier, but I've never seen any reference to this tunnels in any of the material (though I've never seen any reference to indicate that the Salish-Shidhe destroyed it or filled it in during their reclaimation of the island. I'll take your word for it and extrapolate its existence into 2052 Seattle.

You reckon the new owners would be happy enough to have folks crossing underneath the island - security/pollution concerns and whatnot?

[Paul]

You reckon the new owners would be happy enough to have folks crossing underneath the island - security/pollution concerns and whatnot?

I'd say it sounds like a lot more fun to keep the tunnels, and maybe even a check point or two allowing access to the island. This gives you a few tools: the tension between competing security concerns, maybe even some secretive security layers by the Tribal Council; the PR opportunities for the Tribal types to say how much they don't really mind cleanign up the pinkskins pollution, etc...

[Method]

Maybe a little generous go say they are all tunneled I guess. Portions are tunnelled but those that aren't are still below the level of the surface streets with high cement walls on either side of the interstate. At any rate, there are just a few tunneled off ramps that allow travelers to exit onto the island. I could definately see a small security force securing all these, making it very difficult to access the island by ground vehicle.

[Askani'son]

Yeah, definitely has some interesting possibilities in addition to making my life easier when estimating cross-plex travel times.

I was just looking closely at Mercer Island using Google Earth, and it seems that the tunnel only covers about 700m of the 4.5km length of the I-90 on Mercer. In order to keep the road isolated from the rest of the island, the SSC would have to have undertaken some pretty impressive renovations, 'lidding' a further 3.5km worth of road, which I guess wouldn't be out of the question.

On the other hand, the fact is that my players know less about the specifics of present day Seattle than I do, so for all they know, the tunnel has ALWAYS crossed the entire island! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Paul]

Another fun addition may be the possibility of tunnels that were closed, that maybe still exist. Maybe even some other groups have discovered these tunnels, and have some uses for them...

[Draco18s]

Travel to Seattle sometime. Fun place.
I highly suggest you hit up Pioneer Triangle Square and take the underground tour.
It's worth every penny and the "Orc Underground" makes more sense afterwards (and you realize just how messed up Seattle really is).

[Askani'son]

I'd love to! Does Dumpshock keep a 'Foreign Shadowrun GM Travelling Fund'?

Funny, I've been using the Ork Underground in my game lately, and pics of the Seattle underground in the googles have been very useful.

Paul - an secret enclave of the Ork Underground in the 'lost tunnels' under Council Island maybe? There's lots of talk in the SSB about secret tunnels on Council Island already.....

Messed up Dracos? How's that?

[Draco18s]

Messed up Dracos? How's that?

Have you ever wondered why Seattle has an underground?

[Askani'son]

Do tell....!

[BishopMcQ]

Short version, Seattle was built on a tidal flood plain. When the tide came in, the toilets reversed their flow and you had geysers. Add to that tidal flats aren't well supported and you get 13m wide and deep sinkholes. After the town burnt down, twice, they built on top of the ruins and raised the streets to what had previously been the second floor. They covered the sidewalks so wagons wouldn't drop stuff and kill people (it happened before they realized they should cover them). Slowly, the tunnels fell out of use, but nearly half of the space from Belltown to the water has tunnels beneath the buildings or surrounding the basements.

There's a ton more, I compressed 4 hours of tour and a 300p book into a short paragraph.

[CanRay]

If you think that's bad, consider some of the cities in Europe that have burned down more times than has been listed in recorded history and built over again and again. Or Venice, which is still sinking, and is built upon old buildings, from my understanding.

[Draco18s]

Quick history of Seattle (without looking it up!)

Seattle was first built on the salt marsh bordering Puget Sound, essentially they built the place within a foot (below) of high tide.
Knowing they'd have to raise things up enough to be above high tide they filled in under the city (and thus built on top of) wood chips (they had a lot of wood chips, due to a very active lumber industry).

This lead to things like having to put toilets 4 feet above the floor, and hang a tide schedule within (high tide had the tendency of, ah, making waste flow the wrong direction...)

The city eventually decided that enough was enough and that they were going to raise the city up 10 feet. Businesses didn't like this idea (due to being on the ground floor as this would mean that they'd have to relocate up a story) and some businesses would only have 5 feet of road, or 3 feet, essentially cutting their first floor in half, forcing them to remain slightly below street level or slightly above. So not one business was on board with the plan.

City said "fine, we'll just raise the streets then." And so the city built walls along the curb, 10 feet high, all over the city. Then aimed their fire cannons at the surrounding 400 foot tall cliff side,¹ sprayed them with high pressure water. There were residents who refused to give up their land for this large excavation project, which was also fine with the city. They just sprayed around them, leaving them isolated. The resulting mud flowed down into the streets of downtown Seattle, although there wasn't quite enough to fill the trenches, so various bits of refuse were hucked in before it was paved over.

This left the city in a state that you would largely expect it to be in. With ladders at street corners. And very helpful gentlemen who would offer to hold a ladies bags while she climbed the ladder. *Looks up at an imaginary climbing figure wearing a dress.*

Eventually the businesses moved up a floor and paved the sidewalks at the new height, sealing off the underground forever (except as a tourist attraction).

Oh, and all those wood chips they built on top of? Still there. Rotting. Seattle has sunk 6 inches since it was built.

¹It was pretty much a cliff, separating the city into downtown and uptown. Literally.

[CanRay]

And I thought the two cities I lived in were ****ed up.

[Draco18s]

And I thought the two cities I lived in were ****ed up.

That "300 page book" mentioned above is titled Sons of the Profits. Note the spelling on that last word.

[Paul]

I just watched a few YouTube videos on the Underground, and I have to admit some of it was unexpected. Great thread cool ideas to visit!

[Draco18s]

I just watched a few YouTube videos on the Underground, and I have to admit some of it was unexpected. Great threae cool ideas to visit!

Its honestly one of the strangest places in America. Some people will insist that their [local attraction] is weirder, I doubt it really is.

[Cain]

It was pretty much a cliff, separating the city into downtown and uptown. Literally.

What do you mean "was"? To the uninitiated, the east side of Queen Anne Hill looks pretty much like a cliff face someone decided to build houses on. That's something you won't get off of Google maps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[CanRay]

Topographical maps?

[Adarael]

I'm with Method - I've always played it that if you wanna take an off-ramp to Council Island, you have to deal with the hassle, and otherwise it's a drive-right-through situation. Even the non-tunneled portions have walls keeping the 90 boxed in from the rest of the island. The smaller portions of wall are maybe 8 feet high, and the higher ones approach 20 feet. All it would take to reinforce those would be cameras, some cyclone fencing atop them, and some razor/monowire atop that, and you've got a pretty fortified area.

Small wall - http://tinyurl.com/3jyu7tz
Large Wall - http://tinyurl.com/4yyrnqp

Besides, if Council Island DID decide to massively restrict through traffic across 90, Seattle long ago would have just routed the bridge around the island. That freeway sees way too much commuter traffic to put up with the NAN closing it down WITHOUT routing around them if they did. So it's always made more sense to me that you only deal with the hassle if you get off the freeway.

[Draco18s]

What do you mean "was"? To the uninitiated, the east side of Queen Anne Hill looks pretty much like a cliff face someone decided to build houses on. That's something you won't get off of Google maps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

It used to be worse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
(If anyone ever plans to drive in that area, don't get a stickshift unless you're confident that you can use all three peddles at one time).

[Tecumseh]

Having lived on Mercer/Council Island for 20 years with the I-90 tunnel as my backyard, I feel uniquely qualified to comment on this. The short version is that Method and Andarael have it right. Modern day, there are a minimal number of exits from the freeway (three headed east, two headed west), all of which are choke points that would be very easy to secure. As mentioned, the western portion is tunneled while the rest is surrounded by high cement walls. It would be simple to track all traffic crossing the island to make sure it proceeds across. (The Seattle 2072 guidebook alludes to this.)

The guidebooks are inconsistent enough to allow some flexibility in your game. Council Island is a foreign embassy / nature preserve, yet it's also listed as turf for the First Nations gang. This seems inexplicable to me - especially when the same book says "Council personnel take security seriously" - but if there are multiple gangs claiming AAA-rated neighborhoods like Downtown then maybe anything's possible.

Tec

Edit: Now that I look at the map in the Seattle 2072 a little closer, I see that they're using "Downtown" more broadly than I would. In the book it includes everything west of the lake, from Snohomish in the north down past SeaTac in the south (40+ kilometers). Decidedly more than the downtown core that I traditionally think of (and where I'm sitting now). So, yes, plenty of room for gangs of all stripes.

Maybe a little generous go say they are all tunneled I guess. Portions are tunnelled but those that aren't are still below the level of the surface streets with high cement walls on either side of the interstate. At any rate, there are just a few tunneled off ramps that allow travelers to exit onto the island. I could definately see a small security force securing all these, making it very difficult to access the island by ground vehicle.

[Cain]

It used to be worse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
(If anyone ever plans to drive in that area, don't get a stickshift unless you're confident that you can use all three peddles at one time).

How do you think I learned to drive a stick? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Learning to juggle three pedals with two feet as all kinds of no-fun, let me tell you....

Back on topic, Adarael and Method are correct: The five off-ramps are trivial to secure. I-90 used to be a toll highway, so the on-ramps were designed for restricted access, as was most of the freeway through Mercer Island/Council Island. In fact, I remember paying a toll to get on that bridge in the 70's. I don't think the tolls stopped until the mid-80's, to be honest.

[CanRay]

Likely the gang is using their NAN Citizenship to get to Council Island for protection, and doing their dirty deals in the Seattle Metroplex, something that the NAN guards would care a whole hell of a little about. "Anything that keeps the Anglos from being uppity."