Warding and vehicles Options

[Yerameyahu]

Yes, Karma. If you can easily lift and carry a dumpster (large, heavy, '3D'), you can use it to block bullets. Maybe you're the Hulk, maybe you cast Levitate, but either way I think I'm okay with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

So is the big objection to flattish wards (3D, but with one dimension fairly small, for example 5cm x 1m x 1m) that they might be too useful/abused by clever people? Or is there a metaphysical idea behind it?

[Yerameyahu]

As I understand it, wards simply can't do that in SR magic. They're things of spaces, locations, not 'objects'. It'd be against their nature to be a wall (/shield/doorway), but a room, a hallway, a dome is okay. What they're for, their metaphysical reality, is protecting a place; the edge-of-theoretical idea of carrying a minimal one to block things is the same as carrying a dumpster to block bullets: possible, but not the point of the dumpster, and not very convenient.

[Saint Hallow]

Isn't there a spell called Ram, which functions like a magical force that just hits physical objects? If so... then there's no need to use a different spell for the same purpose. I think this is more of a game balance issue... why allow a spell/ability to be used in a specific manner, when there's a different spell/ability that fulfills the purpose?

[Yerameyahu]

Who's talking about spells? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Warding is a non-spell function of any Awakened (and astrally-percieving?) entity, and it doesn't affect mundanes at all. The more exact spell counterpart of warding is Mana Barrier, though there are differences.

Are you talking about casting Physical Barrier, then moving it to hit people? I think that (wrong idea) is a different thread. :/

[Saint Hallow]

Sorry, you're right. I was confusing this with a topic on my other gaming/LARP board. A common thread we keeps iterating is that no spell/power/ability can be used in a manner that copies an already existing spell/power/ability.

[Adarael]

Who's talking about spells? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Warding is a non-spell function of any Awakened (and astrally-percieving?) entity, and it doesn't affect mundanes at all. The more exact spell counterpart of warding is Mana Barrier, though there are differences.

Are you talking about casting Physical Barrier, then moving it to hit people? I think that (wrong idea) is a different thread. :/

I think they have to be able to astrally percieve in order to do so, yeah.

[Bodak]

There were "Ram" and "Wreck" spells (in SR3 at least) which were a target-limited powerbolt at range touch and LoS respectively. So you could have "Wreck Camera" or "Ram Cyberware". I don't think they actually rammed (as in Ramming rules) the target though.

Using Physical Barrier to swat enemies is here.

[Ascalaphus]

As I understand it, wards simply can't do that in SR magic. They're things of spaces, locations, not 'objects'. It'd be against their nature to be a wall (/shield/doorway), but a room, a hallway, a dome is okay. What they're for, their metaphysical reality, is protecting a place; the edge-of-theoretical idea of carrying a minimal one to block things is the same as carrying a dumpster to block bullets: possible, but not the point of the dumpster, and not very convenient.

A car is an object, so is a shipping container, and we've established those as valid targets for warding. So what's the minimal object that can be warded? Could you make a warded briefcase, to protect secret documents?

[Warlordtheft]

Simple rules interpretation:

1. Wards cannot move relative to their anchor.
2. An anchor can be any physical object (such as the cup holder in the center console.
3. The Ward must be defined by a physical border (could be a tree line, could be the interior of the car-GM call as to the requirements, open air seems tricky though).

Ergo, you could ward the interior of a car.

So what did I miss?

[Yerameyahu]

No, Ascalaphus, because it's too small.

Warlordtheft, the issue has just been that the rules, even across books, as well Bodak's nutty quotes, contradict each other. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think most people agree that you have it straight (I do). However, your statements (which the books more or less have) are kinda silly; it's like saying an umbrella can't move relative to its pole. Duh. It's more useful to say (and if the books said) that a ward is defined by anchor+physical border objects, and the anchor can't move relative to *those*. It's not really the same difference.

[Ascalaphus]

No, Ascalaphus, because it's too small.

So what are the minimum sizes? Are they in one of the books?

[Yerameyahu]

Yup. Definitely mentioned in this thread, too.

[KarmaInferno]

"A ward must also extend at least one meter in every direction from the physical anchor that it is attached to (see below), which prevents ward shapes that are very tiny or very thin in any dimension." - Street Magic pg 124




-k

[Ascalaphus]

"A ward must also extend at least one meter in every direction from the physical anchor that it is attached to (see below), which prevents ward shapes that are very tiny or very thin in any dimension." - Street Magic pg 124




-k

Ah, okay. Companion cubes it is then.

[Minimax le Rouge]

If my memories is not wrong you can make a spheric ward too

[Ascalaphus]

If my memories is not wrong you can make a spheric ward too

Yes, but whoever heard of a companion sphere?

[Yerameyahu]

*But*… the surface of the ward has to be significantly bound by physical objects. So your sphere has to have immobile crap distributed relatively evenly across it (otherwise it's an open air ward, yadda yadda).

[Ascalaphus]

*But*… the surface of the ward has to be significantly bound by physical objects. So your sphere has to have immobile crap distributed relatively evenly across it (otherwise it's an open air ward, yadda yadda).

Behold, the magic dodecahedron? (because some other platonic solids are said to cause cancer)

[Yerameyahu]

There's some more in the books about complex shapes not working, but most regular, convex solids should be fine (with physical bounding, of course). The closer to a sphere/half-sphere, the better (presumably).

[KarmaInferno]

Given that warded companion cubes are possible, why then do you not regularly see SWAT teams and the equivalent showing up with pre-prepared warded cube barriers, when they are facing magical threats? Much like they have heavy armored barriers they can deploy to protect against gunfire?

I mean, yeah, they're probably too bulky and unwieldy for shadowrunners to use in most cases, but SWAT wouldn't have a problem with that. They just have a flatbed truck roll up with a half dozen cubes and set them up in whatever defensive position.



-k

[Stahlseele]

Magical Dragonsteeth?

[Bigity]

I thought those grew skeletons up out of the ground?

[Stahlseele]

I meant those WWII Tank-Traps.
Actually not Dragons-Teeth at all.
But i don't know how the kind i mean is named.

[Yerameyahu]

Presumably they do, KarmaInferno… whenever it's feasible to carry around cubes that are 6' on a side, strong enough to survive being moved, and strong enough to survive mundane combat. I'm guessing that's rare.