Cybernetics, Contracts, and Specific Performance, 'I got my Wires in the military.' Options

[Yerameyahu]

http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/09/19/...ic-performance/

I found this interesting, though obviously laws change a lot in SR's megacorp dystopia.

[Dr.Rockso]

Don't they go over this in the corebook(or arsenal, can't remember which)? I seem to recall them going in to how its common practice for corps to install tech in their employees and then either make them pay it off out of their salary or retain ownership and 'repo' it if they ever decide to leave. It's especially prevalent among low tech jobs where they implant skill wires and the like instead of providing training.

[Saint Hallow]

When you join the military, you go through boot camp. Physical conditioning was a huge part of that. With cyber/bio... makes me wonder about if ppl who sign up know they have to get implants.

[Fatum]

Don't they go over this in the corebook(or arsenal, can't remember which)? I seem to recall them going in to how its common practice for corps to install tech in their employees and then either make them pay it off out of their salary or retain ownership and 'repo' it if they ever decide to leave. It's especially prevalent among low tech jobs where they implant skill wires and the like instead of providing training.

Yeah, I remember reading something to that effect.

When you join the military, you go through boot camp. Physical conditioning was a huge part of that. With cyber/bio... makes me wonder about if ppl who sign up know they have to get implants.

Of course. Actually, gangs send their members to serve hoping that they'll get both some military training and combat experience and some nice implants.
Oh, and besides - even in the Sixth World, physical conditioning is still a major factor for a soldier's efficiency (except maybe if they make cyberzombies of them right away).

[Saint Hallow]

Oh, and besides - even in the Sixth World, physical conditioning is still a major factor for a soldier's efficiency (except maybe if they make cyberzombies of them right away).

That's kind of my thought. If you goto the military & get physically conditioned... all that was from your employer (ie the military). You can't give back the muscles, endurance, & better health/physical condition you now have as opposed to before. So.. if the military gives you cyber/bioware... can the same thought apply that it can't be given back. In this case, it sort of can... cyber-implanted weapons in limbs can be removed. Smartgun systems can be removed. So... when a person is done in the military, will the military want it's cyber/bioware back?

[Fatum]

Most likely. But then, some ware you can't remove without PR fallout (like cyberlimbs or replacement organs), and most ware, except for high-end, costs much less than soldier wages, I imagine, so they could just subtract the costs from the payments.

[Elfenlied]

That was a nice read, Yerameyahu. Thank you for sharing.

If cybernetics become common enough in the military, the penalty for desertion will be a lot more severe. You are, after all, stealing milspec equipment.

[Fatum]

That was a nice read, Yerameyahu. Thank you for sharing.

If cybernetics become common enough in the military, the penalty for desertion will be a lot more severe. You are, after all, stealing milspec equipment.

There are cases of desertion without the uniformly issued weapons?

[Elfenlied]

There are cases of desertion without the uniformly issued weapons?

Yeah, at least where I live (Germany). Sometimes, deserters just flee from the barracks in the dead of night, leaving all non-personal stuff behind.

[bustedkarma]

I would think that on a "typical" military separation, anything that was issued that *could* be reclaimed would be, and anything that was too expensive or invasive to get out of you, would be downgraded or semi-disabled.

- High Performance Cyberlimb would be downgraded to something more consumer'ish
- High Rating Milspec commlink *may* stay in your head, but you can bet it's going to be wiped more than once, and some of it's functionality disabled.
- I think that Skillwires themselves would stay, but that skillsoft jukebox giving you access to HALO, Scuba, and Pathfinder skillsets is staying with your old unit.
- The Nanohive and all it's systems are being flushed.
- I would let eye and ears stay, although, maybe at a lower rating with some of the functionality missing.

As a guy who has outproccessed more than one unit, I can tell you that it's relatively easy to make off with *some* gear (I've got at least 2 full sets of MOPP gear at the house), but you really never know. I got a phone call from a supply guy once about a Leatherman they thought I took when I left the unit.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hey, In wartime, many things are simply written off as combat losses, regardless of whether you actually have possession of the items. When I returned from the 1st Gulf War, My Full Kit was written off as a loss (except for the M-16). That's right, every piece of gear issued was retainable for civilian use. Was kind of nice. Too bad I did not have the room to actually pack it in my car. Ended up giving it all away to a buddy of mine.

[Yerameyahu]

Let's not focus too much on the special case of military, which is an increasingly unimportant category in 2070. I found the corporate/legal issues more interesting.

[bustedkarma]

Let's not focus too much on the special case of military, which is an increasingly unimportant category in 2070. I found the corporate/legal issues more interesting.

With Corps I think your looking at financial, legal, public relations, and human resources issues. Really, Corps being Corps, their biggest interest should be lowering cost, increasing sales, and generally turning a profit. If a wageslave leaving doesn't impact that objective in a negative way, why would they care about pulling it out?

This guy is leaving (we'll assume it's on good terms), and he's got corporate property in his body.

-Is the money we spend taking it out worth the expense?
-What is our legal exposure if we leave it in, and he commits a crime using it?
-Does leaving it in generate positive PR with our current and existing clients?
-Do we want this guy back? Will leaving this gear in help us bring him back to the fold?


I think if you start looking at guys leaving AA/AAA firms (which doesn't happen voluntarily all that often) I'd assume...
"Can we just kill him, and pull the tech out of his corpse?" also becomes an option, assuming the expense makes sense.

[Stalag]

Hey, In wartime, many things are simply written off as combat losses, regardless of whether you actually have possession of the items. When I returned from the 1st Gulf War, My Full Kit was written off as a loss (except for the M-16). That's right, every piece of gear issued was retainable for civilian use. Was kind of nice. Too bad I did not have the room to actually pack it in my car. Ended up giving it all away to a buddy of mine.

That's where those Army Surplus stores get the bulk of their inventory

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's where those Army Surplus stores get the bulk of their inventory

Yep... Though there are indeed times I wish I had kept all that inventory for myself.

[Fatum]

Corp security forces are more or less militaries anyway, so it's not like there's that much of a difference, I'd say...

[Bigity]

Yep... Though there are indeed times I wish I had kept all that inventory for myself.

I kept all mine (not that much of it fits anymore 10+ years later). They charged me for it, so I kept it. Talking about uniform items and other issued gear. I also kept my gas mask as it was a custom fitted one due to some extra duties I had - (washing chemicals and crap off of firefighters if they had to fight a fire with hazmat around - hey, it beat becoming a security forces augmentee and standing at the gate for 12 hours shifts)

Stuff like better boots or alice packs I had to go buy in the first place.

It was fun at the airport taking a M-16 out of the crate of M-16s to stand guard while we waiting for our flights over to the war. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) While wearing civilian clothes because our desert BDUs hadn't found us yet. Those we had to return though :/ (the M-16s)

[Stalag]

Those we had to return though :/ (the M-16s)

Did they collect them over there or did you fly back with them and return them here?

There's rumors that all those "returned" M-16's go into giant warehouses in whatever country they were used in because shipping, refurb, and re-issue is way more expensive than just buying new ones.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I kept all mine (not that much of it fits anymore 10+ years later). They charged me for it, so I kept it. Talking about uniform items and other issued gear. I also kept my gas mask as it was a custom fitted one due to some extra duties I had - (washing chemicals and crap off of firefighters if they had to fight a fire with hazmat around - hey, it beat becoming a security forces augmentee and standing at the gate for 12 hours shifts)

Stuff like better boots or alice packs I had to go buy in the first place.

It was fun at the airport taking a M-16 out of the crate of M-16s to stand guard while we waiting for our flights over to the war. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) While wearing civilian clothes because our desert BDUs hadn't found us yet. Those we had to return though :/ (the M-16s)

You had to purchase your alice pack and duece gear, as well as any combat related gear that was not a Firearm? Wow. Even in the Corps you did not have to do that, and we were/are the poorest/smallest of the Military Branches who get everyone else's castoffs. I can understand the comment about the boots. Yes, you purchase your uniforms. But that was/is always the case. *shrug*

My entire combat load was Issued, and was listed as Combat Loss when I returned to the States. So no turning in of anything (except for the M16 and M1911). Of course, we still did not get to keep the war trophies we had (We had ~117 AK's, 1 Soviet Sniper Rifle (Mint Condition) with Night Sights, a Dozen or so Pistols of various makes/models, 7 RPG Launchers, etc). Those had to be turned into the Regiment, who then gave them out to the Officers. We were very pissed about that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Did they collect them over there or did you fly back with them and return them here?

There's rumors that all those "returned" M-16's go into giant warehouses in whatever country they were used in because shipping, refurb, and re-issue is way more expensive than just buying new ones.

We brought ours back with us on the plane. Returned them to the Battalion Armory. And new is often a misnomer. My "Brand New" Issued M1911 was delivered to me in its original box, still sealed, still in cosmoline. It was manufatured in 1941. I loved that gun.

[Yerameyahu]

Isn't that what new means?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Isn't that what new means?

Sometimes, especially in the Marine Corps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I mean in general use. New as opposed to used.

[Bigity]

You had to purchase your alice pack and duece gear, as well as any combat related gear that was not a Firearm? Wow. Even in the Corps you did not have to do that, and we were/are the poorest/smallest of the Military Branches who get everyone else's castoffs. I can understand the comment about the boots. Yes, you purchase your uniforms. But that was/is always the case. *shrug*

My entire combat load was Issued, and was listed as Combat Loss when I returned to the States. So no turning in of anything (except for the M16 and M1911). Of course, we still did not get to keep the war trophies we had (We had ~117 AK's, 1 Soviet Sniper Rifle (Mint Condition) with Night Sights, a Dozen or so Pistols of various makes/models, 7 RPG Launchers, etc). Those had to be turned into the Regiment, who then gave them out to the Officers. We were very pissed about that.

Well, I was not a combatant, but a computer guy. I'm sure for actual line combatants, hopefully even the USAF would issue that kind of thing (but who knows).

The M-16s were for the guard duty we had to do for our areas of camp. I'm not sure what happened to them, but I do recall the 'combat loss' stuff. I'm sure it was cheaper to buy new stuff stateside than ship it all back.

My assigned M-16 sucked balls and jammed every 4-5 rounds at the range. That happened at basic training too but that was probably due to the casings being reloaded a billion times for trainees. Thankfully my life or someone else's was relying on it. I'm also hoping the folks doing the shooting got better ones than I did.

I wasn't complaining about what I had to pay for myself, just saying what I remember (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, I was not a combatant, but a computer guy. I'm sure for actual line combatants, hopefully even the USAF would issue that kind of thing (but who knows).

The M-16s were for the guard duty we had to do for our areas of camp. I'm not sure what happened to them, but I do recall the 'combat loss' stuff. I'm sure it was cheaper to buy new stuff stateside than ship it all back.

My assigned M-16 sucked balls and jammed every 4-5 rounds at the range. That happened at basic training too but that was probably due to the casings being reloaded a billion times for trainees. Thankfully my life or someone else's was relying on it. I'm also hoping the folks doing the shooting got better ones than I did.

I wasn't complaining about what I had to pay for myself, just saying what I remember (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No worries... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)