Licenses, There are so many! Options

[SleepMethod]

I'm finding that world of shadowrun can be quite prohibitive in terms of how much stuff you need licences for, in fairness a lot of it makes sense but there are some things that don't make sense to me. But that's another arguement. What I'd like ot know is your opinion on licences, do you have one of revery peice of kit that requires it and one for every gun etc, or do you just have a few that encompase several pieces of kit?

How do you deal with licences in your games or do they even come up?

Cheers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Saint Hallow]

You need licenses for your guns, some cyber/bio, demolition stuff, some programs, & drugs/biotech. I normally only have fake licenses for my gear that stays with me at all times that may get found during a random search by police/security. Small guns (pistols or SMG) & my cyberware (like wired reflexes). For my other gear that I am NOT always carrying with me (assault rifles, grenades, demolition gear)... those items don't have licenses. If I'm carrying those items, it's cause I'm on a run, & getting caught isn't an option. If I do get caught, having illegal guns is the least of my worries.

[suoq]

You really have to make your own decisions when it comes to licenses. Some personal notes:

1) I am NOT a fan of the "everyone does the same thing" mentality that permeates dumpshock. I see no reason why two cities, next to each other, would have police forces that treat their citizens the same. I see no reason why you can't have cops that enforce laws in one city (harassing everyone) and cops that enforce peace in another city (don't start nothing, won't be nothing) even if the cities are jammed up against each other.

2) I don't see why a license would cross borders. Why the heck would the Aztecs care if you have a CAS license.

3) It's just a license. From a certain standpoint it's a receipt for a government bribe. If you get caught without one, pay the man. (I love the line in Snow Crash. "Y.T. is card carrying, how much to get off?")

4) The main reason to have a fake license is to keep from having your fake SIN thoroughly examined by the computers when they try to add a license to it. But I see no reason why you couldn't purchase a "local license", especially in a city that has a lot of tourists/guests.

[Stalag]

Of course if you're packed full of F rated cyberware (or bioware, it's just harder to detect) then you really just need to always be avoiding law enforcement all together.

[Stalag]

You really have to make your own decisions when it comes to licenses. Some personal notes:

1) I am NOT a fan of the "everyone does the same thing" mentality that permeates dumpshock. I see no reason why two cities, next to each other, would have police forces that treat their citizens the same. I see no reason why you can't have cops that enforce laws in one city (harassing everyone) and cops that enforce peace in another city (don't start nothing, won't be nothing) even if the cities are jammed up against each other.

Especially in a place like Seattle where the next city over is in another country. I think in most instances here everyone assumes Seattle since it's the default setting for the game.

2) I don't see why a license would cross borders. Why the heck would the Aztecs care if you have a CAS license.

They wouldn't - some license are by country (drivers) where others are frequently more localized (concealed carry permits). Most countries will honor another countries drivers license. None will honor carry permits (based on RL examples).

3) It's just a license. From a certain standpoint it's a receipt for a government bribe. If you get caught without one, pay the man. (I love the line in Snow Crash. "Y.T. is card carrying, how much to get off?")

Assuming his morals are flexible enough and your negotiation skill + Cha is high enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

4) The main reason to have a fake license is to keep from having your fake SIN thoroughly examined by the computers when they try to add a license to it. But I see no reason why you couldn't purchase a "local license", especially in a city that has a lot of tourists/guests.

Well a legal license will come with background check of an intensity relative to the "danger" of what's being licensed and will generally require a local SIN - but then there are always local fakes, just need to make the right contacts

[suoq]

Well a legal license will come with background check of an intensity relative to the "danger" of what's being licensed and will generally require a local SIN - but then there are always local fakes, just need to make the right contacts

I was thinking more along the lines of foreign travel bribes, for example:
http://www.toddswanderings.com/2011/01/whe...-you-bribe.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...lient=firefox-a

I have a friend who travels to China a lot, often helping with adoption. He's incredibly used to the bribe process (and the ever changing prices and wait times depending on international relations). I sometimes think of his stories when I think about shadowrun travel.

Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers) had a great line in "Last Chance to See" (nonfiction). It was something like, "You can always recognize a former colony by the number of people who exist solely to prevent you from doing something without a bribe." I think that describes licenses quite well. But that's just me.

[Ascalaphus]

I was thinking more along the lines of foreign travel bribes, for example:
http://www.toddswanderings.com/2011/01/whe...-you-bribe.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...lient=firefox-a

I have a friend who travels to China a lot, often helping with adoption. He's incredibly used to the bribe process (and the ever changing prices and wait times depending on international relations). I sometimes think of his stories when I think about shadowrun travel.

Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers) had a great line in "Last Chance to See" (nonfiction). It was something like, "You can always recognize a former colony by the number of people who exist solely to prevent you from doing something without a bribe." I think that describes licenses quite well. But that's just me.

Thanks for the interesting articles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[SleepMethod]

I was thinking more along the lines of foreign travel bribes, for example:
http://www.toddswanderings.com/2011/01/whe...-you-bribe.html
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...lient=firefox-a

I have a friend who travels to China a lot, often helping with adoption. He's incredibly used to the bribe process (and the ever changing prices and wait times depending on international relations). I sometimes think of his stories when I think about shadowrun travel.

Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers) had a great line in "Last Chance to See" (nonfiction). It was something like, "You can always recognize a former colony by the number of people who exist solely to prevent you from doing something without a bribe." I think that describes licenses quite well. But that's just me.

They are some veryinteresting articles, something to think about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[whatevs]

I'm finding that world of shadowrun can be quite prohibitive in terms of how much stuff you need licences for, in fairness a lot of it makes sense but there are some things that don't make sense to me. But that's another arguement. What I'd like ot know is your opinion on licences, do you have one of revery peice of kit that requires it and one for every gun etc, or do you just have a few that encompase several pieces of kit?

How do you deal with licences in your games or do they even come up?

Cheers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

They havn't come up in my current game. If they did however, i'd hope there was some centralization around them. Otherwise they become unmanageable.

Like my spelling.

[Stalag]

I have a friend who travels to China a lot, often helping with adoption. He's incredibly used to the bribe process (and the ever changing prices and wait times depending on international relations). I sometimes think of his stories when I think about shadowrun travel.

Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers) had a great line in "Last Chance to See" (nonfiction). It was something like, "You can always recognize a former colony by the number of people who exist solely to prevent you from doing something without a bribe." I think that describes licenses quite well. But that's just me.

Well, being in the west I still kind of assume the bribery is a bit more subtle and not necessarily "status quo" .. at least not everywhere.

In that case, maybe an etiquette test instead (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[CanRay]

All it takes is one honest bureaucrat who you offer a bribe to who will BURY you in red tape.

I should know, I was one. Not in any position where I'd have gotten bribes, but I know I wouldn't have let anything slide on a person who tried to offer me one if I was in a position.

"Bribe or die", OTOH...

[Snow_Fox]

The point of all the ppwrk is that odds are criminal will miss something and that gives the police a handle to grab by- remember Al Capone went up for tax evasion, not murder, not racketteering, not violation of prohibition laws, but failure to pay taxes.

[Saint Hallow]

I think you have to treat SINs & Licences more like the Minority Report scans. Once you enter a store, your retinas are scanned & the store greets you by name & such. If any of your gear needs a license & the store scans you... the RFID tags will appear & need to be verified with your SIN. Of course, the store in Minority Report was in a AAA rated neighborhood. B, C class places without those invasive scans aren't going to be checking your SIN vs your Licenses, vs what you might be carrying on your person.

[Saint Hallow]

Here's an example... as well as making sure your SIN matches the ID that you want. LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That Mr. Yakamoto line sill cracks me up.

False SIn & shopping fun.

[Midas]

Like fake SINs, licences are important should you be stopped by the Star going about your usual business. If your fake SIN seems to hold up and you have licences for all the R gear you are (apparently) carrying, they will send you on your way without any fuss. If your fake SIN runs a red flag, or you have gear you don't have a license for, then you will probably be given a more thorough search and/or taken down to the precinct for a chat.

If you are stopped speeding away from a corp facility with alarms jangling and/or a big hole in the wall, or a troll with a gunshot wound in the back seat etc, your fake SINs and fancy licences mean nothing and you will probably be arrested on the spot.

Are fake licences important? If you don't want to be arrested on a routine inspection, hell yes. But as has been said, only for the stuff that isn't hidden away. Also, fake PI, paracritter exterminator, police or bounty hunter licences can give the Star a logical reason not to treat your big gun with suspicion even if you have a licence to carry ...

[TheOOB]

I personally (house) rule that restricted items don't need a license, they just need to be registered to a SIN and possibly require a background check. You don't need a license to carry a pistol, but you do need the gun registered to your SIN for it to be legal. Forbidden gear does need a license, as do certain privlages(such as a concealed carry license).

[CanRay]

The point of all the ppwrk is that odds are criminal will miss something and that gives the police a handle to grab by- remember Al Capone went up for tax evasion, not murder, not racketteering, not violation of prohibition laws, but failure to pay taxes.

I heard that one of the most successful marijuana growers in my home town also has the city's best accountant on retainer to prevent just such a thing. This is second, third, maybe even fourth hand info, mind.

[Neraph]

I personally (house) rule that restricted items don't need a license, they just need to be registered to a SIN and possibly require a background check. You don't need a license to carry a pistol, but you do need the gun registered to your SIN for it to be legal. Forbidden gear does need a license, as do certain privlages(such as a concealed carry license).

Your house rule is far away from the actual rule. And reality.

Try owning a gun. That requires registering the gun (with a few exceptions). Now try walking down the street with it. It's a felony (or multiple) to do this, unless you have a license. Try owning a M61 Vulcan. That's a Forbidden weapon.

[CanRay]

*Pulls a Bazooka out of The Mask's pants* "I have a permit for that."

[Mäx]

None will honor carry permits (based on RL examples).

The problem with basing this on RL examples is that in RL the shopping mall in the centre of town isn't a foreign country, in SR that's quite likely.

[Cheops]

In SR4 I will often bundle licenses together. So for instance if a character buys a fake PI's license it also gives him possession and transportation rights for Pistols (not automatics). If a character has a fake Security Consultant license it will allow him to have some hacker programs and security measures/countermeasures. I don't tend to bother with stupid shit like driver's licenses -- that's in your SIN.

Some licenses also have game world uses. For instance a fake Press Corps license will often get you into places depending on type (stadium locker rooms, government buildings, backstage at concerts, etc). Likewise being a licensed Matrix Technician goes long ways towards convincing security to let you into buildings.

[Saint Hallow]

How many people even have driver's licenses anymore? Most urban dwellers who own a car will use it's pilot or gridlink. Only areas outside of downtown or major urban areas would need that I think.