New Spell, ...and i need your opinions...again.^^ Options

[Machiavelli]

I only took the RAW and put every approbriate modifier in. Basically the only change to elemental aura is, that it went from LOS to Caster only which definitely reduces the drain a lot. Then i add AOE which raises it back again a bit. Anyway, it still would be a goods spell even if we adjust the drain to (F/2)+3 for balancing reasons, so i wouldn´t mind.

Besides: if you attack somebody with elemental aura (means stepping into the range of the spell) you ALSO have no defense roll, you just soak. So where is the big difference now? The range is just bigger. If you step in, you are toasted. Finito. I see no problem.

[Dahrken]

The difference is you need to sucessfully attack (or be attacked by) the recipient of the Elemental Aura spell to be affected. If you simply touch him (or he just touches you) or if the attack does not connect (Melee attack vs defense roll, and not auto-hit), you take no damage at all.

With your proposed spell, you do not extend the area of effect of Elemental Aura, you leave the basic spell unchanged and then add to it Physical+Elemental Area damage using a different trigger condition for it ("anyone successfully melee attacking or being attacked by the target of the spell" switched to "automatically affecting anything/anyone in the area except the caster"), actually rolling two spells into one. This IMHO should result in far more than the meager "+2" to drain you compute.

[Ascalaphus]

I think it makes more sense to take Fireball as basis of comparison.

* Restricted range: reduce drain
* Doesn't hurt yourself: increase drain
-> balances out against each other

* Sustained duration: increase Drain value
* Lower damage (hits instead of hits+Force): reduce drain value.
-> balances out against each other

All in all, (F/2)+5 sounds reasonable. Pick an element type you like.

[Machiavelli]

The problem is, the spell is designed to save your ass, not to kill you with drain. ^^

[Ascalaphus]

The problem is, the spell is designed to save your ass, not to kill you with drain. ^^

Yeah, but you're trying to do with one spell, what normally takes several. That means that the one spell is going to end up more costly...

[Machiavelli]

I will let my GM decide. ^^

[HunterHerne]

I still say it works best as a suppressive fire zone around the caster. The damage is still there, it's not automatic as people can defend against it, but it can be a huge threat.

[Yerameyahu]

Personally, I never understood my Caster Only should reduce drain. It's the same spell. Perhaps it should reduce the learning cost, but not drain. Oh well, that's a different issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Machiavelli]

I don´t know. We are talking about a field of fire. If you don´t want to get hurt, get the f***ck outta there. ^^ I would say it this way: if the field is active and you step in: automatic damage. If you stand near the mage and he starts this spell, you can try to get out of reach (grenade rules). Better?

[Draco18s]

I only took the RAW and put every approbriate modifier in. Basically the only change to elemental aura is, that it went from LOS to Caster only which definitely reduces the drain a lot. Then i add AOE which raises it back again a bit. Anyway, it still would be a goods spell even if we adjust the drain to (F/2)+3 for balancing reasons, so i wouldn´t mind.

Ahem. Caster Only and AOE are mutually exclusive choices under "determine range."

[Yerameyahu]

Having not read WAR!, how is this different from 'Element Cloud'?

[Machiavelli]

Really. Hmmmm...what about limited target? I wanted to make it a personal version, that can only be cast on the mage itself.

[Draco18s]

Really. Hmmmm...what about limited target? I wanted to make it a personal version, that can only be cast on the mage itself.

Restricted Target? No, but I could see Restricted Effect ("does not effect caster" or somesuch).

The "can only be cast on self" is easy to do with description: The spell says it "surrounds the caster with elemental energy" and tada, can't put it on someone else.

[Yerameyahu]

Not affecting the caster is a bonus, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Draco18s]

Not affecting the caster is a bonus, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Never said it wasn't.

[HunterHerne]

Never said it wasn't.

It is. But not being able to target anything outside the area isn't.

Restricted target: Caster only is viable for spells for a -2 drain. And isn't mutually exlusive from AoE (Touch, LoS or LoS(A) are the choices there)

However, "bursting" from a source instead of a point would be powerful, so I would add an additional drain modifer, and restrict it to only be allowed when LoS(A) and "Caster only" are chosen, in order to restrict it from being used on a phys ad in the center of a free for all with the enemies... Or just not allow it at all, since this is all house rule territory anyway.

Edit: Maybe a Bursting metamagic would be better. "Using this metamagic technique, the caster may choose to have an area spell use himself as the point of origin, without affecting himself. If the spell is sustained, it surrounds him, and he cannot be more then (initiate grade) meters from the center, as long as he remains within the effect."

Thoughts?

[Yerameyahu]

You did say it wasn't, when you suggested that 'caster safe' maps to the drain *reduction* Caster Only (or Restricted Target). Instead, it should be a drain increase, totally unrelated.

Anyway, I looked it up myself:

• Element Cloud: diameter=F, hits as suppressive fire, DV=F, sustained, LOS(A).
There are some questions for me here. How precisely does it act like suppression? Does the spellcasting test's hits sub for the firearms Success test? Do targets get Reaction + Edge to avoid it? In fact, I don't understand how it's like suppression at all. It doesn't make sense for them to get Reaction against a cloud, nor should cover, not moving, or dropping prone help. Instead, it should (=appears to) hit everyone once per Turn.

• Machiavelli wants: diameter=F, hits everyone once per Turn (except caster), DV=F, 'Caster Only (A)'… right? So it's Element Cloud with this 'Caster Only (A)' category. He's downgrading from LOS (cast anywhere), but upgrading to Caster Safe.

[HunterHerne]

You did say it wasn't, when you suggested that 'caster safe' maps to the drain *reduction* Caster Only (or Restricted Target). Instead, it should be a drain increase, totally unrelated.

You've convinced me otherwise. Now I'm thinking it should only allow a "partial" reduction in order to make the caster safe. If that.

[Dahrken]

There are some questions for me here. How precisely does it act like suppression? Does the spellcasting test's hits sub for the firearms Success test? Do targets get Reaction + Edge to avoid it? In fact, I don't understand how it's like suppression at all. It doesn't make sense for them to get Reaction against a cloud, nor should cover, not moving, or dropping prone help. Instead, it should (=appears to) hit everyone once per Turn.

If I had to fluff it, I'd describe the effect as random bouts of flame/electricity/whatever Elemental effect is selected twisting and jumping thoughout the whole area effect rather than an homogenous sphere completely filled with destructive energies.

This way if you are quick, lucky or both you could manage to stay unharmed, the Magic+Spellcasting test (which would be opposed by Edge+Reaction once per turn for anybody staying into or crossing the area) reflecting the "density" of the manifestation and making it harder to dodge, somewhat like the way Suppressive Fire is handled.

• Machiavelli wants: diameter=F, hits everyone once per Turn (except caster), DV=F, 'Caster Only (A)'… right? So it's Element Cloud with this 'Caster Only (A)' category. He's downgrading from LOS (cast anywhere), but upgrading to Caster Safe.

My main gripping point and the reason I find the suggested Drain *way* too low is that in his description he retains the full effect of Elemental Aura in addition to the area effect.

Let's try this :
Physical spell +1
Caster Only -2
Sustained +0
Restricted Effect ? -> "Anybody but the caster" is IMHO far too general to qualify for this reduction so 0 here, not -1
Physical damage +0
Major change +2 -> a chance of elemental damage in a F/2 meter radius qualify for that
Elemental effect +2

Ending with a Drain of (F/2) + 3 - which would also be the Drain you would get starting with an Elemental Cloud spell, switching from LOS to "caster only" for -2 Drain and trading the ability to freely move the area of effect within LOS for immunity against his own spell.

[Yerameyahu]

Right, he obviously can't have both spells together. They're distinct effects.

Excluding the caster is a *bonus*; it should cost *extra* Drain, not less… not even 0, as you have it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Okay, I can dig the 'whizzing bolts of stuff' idea. Is the Magic+Spellcasting test an acceptable substitute for the firearms version? It seems like the DP and DV will both be vastly less than bullets. I guess we could run the numbers.

[Mardrax]

I only took the RAW and put every approbriate modifier in. Basically the only change to elemental aura is, that it went from LOS to Caster only which definitely reduces the drain a lot.

Again, I reiterate, with the danger of boring myself and others with this:
No. Just no. That is not the way Element Aura works. Not even close.

An AoE version of Element Aura would provide several people with the same offensive and defensive benefits, not bathe the area in harmful energy.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Again, I reiterate, with the danger of boring myself and others with this:
No. Just no. That is not the way Element Aura works. Not even close.

An AoE version of Element Aura would provide several people with the same offensive and defensive benefits, not bathe the area in harmful energy.

Even your Opponents...
And I do not think that it would work the way that you think it should. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Mardrax]

Even your Opponents...
And I do not think that it would work the way that you think it should. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

However it would, it wouldn't set F meters around a target ablaze, which was my point.
Out of interest though, how do you think it should work?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

However it would, it wouldn't set F meters around a target ablaze, which was my point.
Out of interest though, how do you think it should work?

Personally, I would never allow such a spell into the grimoire.
But if I did, I would likely use it like the Suppression Option that has been bandied about. Of course, the Drain would be higher than +3 as well. Probably in the range of +5 or so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dahrken]

The drain of the "standard" spell would be +5, here the Drain is reduced to +3 because he can cast it only on a single person, himself. With the same restriction Elemental Aura would drop from it's "normal" +3 to +1.