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Machiavelli
post Sep 27 2011, 12:36 PM
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Can you please tell me what exactly makes blood spirits so dangerous? I donīt get it. In comparison with other spirits they seem not much more deadly but much more obvious.
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 27 2011, 12:44 PM
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Because people use your blood for them.
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Elfenlied
post Sep 27 2011, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Sep 27 2011, 12:36 PM) *
Can you please tell me what exactly makes blood spirits so dangerous? I donīt get it. In comparison with other spirits they seem not much more deadly but much more obvious.


They can increase their force by 1.5 by absorbing essence. So your F8 Spirit suddenly becomes a F12 spirit.
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Seriously Mike
post Sep 27 2011, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (Elfenlied @ Sep 27 2011, 02:50 PM) *
They can increase their force by 1.5 by absorbing essence. So your F8 Spirit suddenly becomes a F12 spirit.

And source of the essence is the hapless chump attacked by the spirit?
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Elfenlied
post Sep 27 2011, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Sep 27 2011, 12:54 PM) *
And source of the essence is the hapless chump attacked by the spirit?


Actually, you need to incapacitate/restrain them, since the actual draining process takes some time. So it's the hapless chumps that were Sns'd and stunballed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Ascalaphus
post Sep 27 2011, 01:08 PM
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And doesn't Blood Magic let you resist more Drain? So the inital Force of the spirit might be higher too.

So the answer is: they're scary because they're above-normal Force. A bit of an anti-climax, really. It could've been something more exotic.
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Elfenlied
post Sep 27 2011, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Sep 27 2011, 01:08 PM) *
And doesn't Blood Magic let you resist more Drain? So the inital Force of the spirit might be higher too.

So the answer is: they're scary because they're above-normal Force. A bit of an anti-climax, really. It could've been something more exotic.


That's a good point, too. Sacrifice some squatters, get your F10/15 Blood spirit. Remember, you need to invoke them, so you basically need to do this.
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Machiavelli
post Sep 27 2011, 01:21 PM
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Hmmm...but with increasing force they also tend to beat the sh**t out of the summoner, arenīt they? But besides the force-addding, they donīt have special powers that make them uber, donīt they?
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Yerameyahu
post Sep 27 2011, 01:22 PM
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Yes, there is all that. But I meant they're scary like nuclear power plants are scary: the power they produce is totally normal, safe electricity. But the by-products are an issue. The by-products of blood magic are the issue.

AFAIK, no. Not the summoner, the summoner's sacrifices get 'beat up'. Or maybe his cultists.
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Elfenlied
post Sep 27 2011, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Sep 27 2011, 01:21 PM) *
Hmmm...but with increasing force they also tend to beat the sh**t out of the summoner, arenīt they? But besides the force-addding, they donīt have special powers that make them uber, donīt they?


Actually, the summoner just needs to sacrifice enough people so he never gets drain. The tricky part is getting enough successes to bind the spirit, but since you're a high-grade initiate anyway, that shouldn't be a problem.

As for the powers: they afaik get compulsion, which is all kinds of awesome, and they can drain essence. Use any of these on a PC, and they're screwed.
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Mardrax
post Sep 27 2011, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Sep 27 2011, 03:21 PM) *
Hmmm...but with increasing force they also tend to beat the sh**t out of the summoner, arenīt they? But besides the force-addding, they donīt have special powers that make them uber, donīt they?

Essence Drain really is really scary when you consider the fact that it's permanent loss you're talking. Short of gene therapy.
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Machiavelli
post Sep 27 2011, 02:07 PM
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And a quick death for our common cyber-samurais....hmmm. I need a teacher for blood magic. ^^
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bustedkarma
post Sep 27 2011, 03:00 PM
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"When the invocation is fueled by the sacrifice of a living entity, the essence of the donor is imprinted on the invoked spirit. Blood spirits tend to take the appearance of bloody and savage amalgams of the donor and the bound spirit type (e.g. a blood-soaked Aztec guardian spirit with the face and body of the donor from whom it was created). The violent nature of the sacrifice makes the invoked blood spirit aggressive and difficult to control. It will always turn on its summoner if it becomes free."

In addition, they acquire Evanescence. They lose one point of force per sunrise/set, and have to use their Drain Energy (Essence) to fight the effects. So in addition to looking like that squatter/sararimen/hooker you just murdered, you have to keep it fed on a daily basis. If for some reason it get's lose, it's going to eat your soul FIRST, and then go on a murder spree.

Blood Spirits don't scare me the way Bugs or Toxics do, but they are still pretty frigging terrible. But hey, no drain right?


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Machiavelli
post Sep 27 2011, 03:36 PM
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Is there still the reward for a living blood-magician that Dunkie offered in his last will?
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HunterHerne
post Sep 27 2011, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Sep 27 2011, 11:36 AM) *
Is there still the reward for a living blood-magician that Dunkie offered in his last will?


I thought it was for dead blood mages? Or was that toxics?
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ggodo
post Sep 27 2011, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Sep 27 2011, 07:36 AM) *
Is there still the reward for a living blood-magician that Dunkie offered in his last will?



QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Sep 27 2011, 07:39 AM) *
I thought it was for dead blood mages? Or was that toxics?


It was for living Bloods and Toxics. I play that the bounty is still there, and my players have collected on it twice, once for each. The first time with the toxic was when they were pretty much starting out and most of the money went to rebuilding the Shadow Skool after a freak bear-related incident. I just had the skool skim most of it off the top witrhout the players knowing the exact size of the bounty. Later they bagged the blood mage from DOTA: Midnight, even disabling his head bomb. then they got the full rewards, but haad to split it with Frosty and Samriel, as well as the party. It doesn't spread as far as you'd think.
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PresentPresence
post Sep 27 2011, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Sep 27 2011, 10:36 AM) *
Is there still the reward for a living blood-magician that Dunkie offered in his last will?

QUOTE (Dunkelzahn)
To further encourage an end to the use of blood magic by Aztechnology and other parties, I offer a bounty of 1 million nuyen on any blood mages captured alive and delivered to the Dunkelzahn Institute of Magical Research for the purposes of studying the effects of blood magic use on metahumanity. I further authorize the Draco Foundation to provide suitable rewards for the receipt of verifiable accounts of blood magic use, the rewards to reflect the usefulness of the information provided.

So, in order to discourage the use of blood magic, he wants it to be studied and experimented on metahumans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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HunterHerne
post Sep 27 2011, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (PresentPresence @ Sep 27 2011, 11:50 AM) *
So, in order to discourage the use of blood magic, he wants it to be studied and experimented on metahumans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)


would you want to be the guinea pig of a draconic organisation? Especially one headed by Nadja Daviar?
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Dahrken
post Sep 27 2011, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (PresentPresence @ Sep 27 2011, 05:50 PM) *
So, in order to discourage the use of blood magic, he wants it to be studied and experimented on metahumans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

As I understand this (the wording is a bit ambiguous), the purpose is not to study how it (likelly adversely) affects those it is used on, but those it is used by, hence the bounty
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Mardrax
post Sep 27 2011, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (Dahrken @ Sep 27 2011, 07:26 PM) *
As I understand this (the wording is a bit ambiguous), the purpose is not to study how it (likelly adversely) affects those it is used on, but those it is used by, hence the bounty

Of course, once you have more than one of the latter, you can substitute them into being the former, with no moral issues whatsoever.
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HunterHerne
post Sep 27 2011, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (Mardrax @ Sep 27 2011, 01:47 PM) *
Of course, once you have more than one of the latter, you can substitute them into being the former, with no moral issues whatsoever.


Depends. If you are doing it to find out how the blood magic affects the (meta)human over the long term, you need multiple lab rats who are going through similar trials in order to figure out a baseline average. Talk to the right mad scientist, and this could be a definite moral grossness.
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Mardrax
post Sep 27 2011, 06:50 PM
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Blood mages are evil enough to not cause moral qualms about putting them through thorough testing their schtick upon themselves.
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Paul
post Sep 27 2011, 07:56 PM
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Blood Mages fit into the presented morality of the game, which takes the tone of a anti-establishment, somewhat Anarchist, edgy but still humanist narrative. Blood Mages are like anything else-they're as bad ass of a tool as the GM makes them.
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Sengir
post Sep 27 2011, 08:05 PM
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There's also one general thing to keep in mind about blood magic: Becoming a blood mage requires the prospective supervillain to have a powerful backer, since that kind of magic has to be learned from a tutor. Since it's safe to assume that secret, powerful magical groups and free blood spirits don't put up with mediocre, being exceptionally powerful is more or less an entry requirement for blood mages.
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Hound
post Sep 27 2011, 09:02 PM
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part of the reason blood spirits are considered especially dangerous too, is their "personality." A normal spirit, when ordered to defend the summoner from attack may possibly opt to use Fear or some other non-violent (or at least non-lethal) method, depending on the spirit. A blood spirit will generally choose the most horrifically violent and deadly method available. Also, other spirits that break free have a fair chance of just leaving the material plane, perhaps after attacking their summoner a bit or going on a short rampage. Blood spirits that break free basically always seek to become evil supervillains in their own right, the most dangerous kind of villain that has no objective other than carnage/suffering.
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