Cybernetics, Infection, and Regeneration, I will give you the choice I never had. Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Stalag]

Some Infected possess the Regeneration power, which makes implantation very difficult. Modern science can circumvent certain of these restrictions using specially-formulated materials, drugs, and allergenic surgery—for a price. In practice, most Infected can accept any implant (cyberware, bioware, nanoware) without difficulty, provided they can find a street doc or facility willing to perform the surgery—double the Interval for the Availability Test when looking for a Medical Provider that will work on the Infected. Infected with the Regeneration power may only accept deltaware implants. Genetech augmentations of any sort are not available to the Infected at all, as the retrovirus in their systems re-sists and rewrites any other attempt to alter the character’s genetic code.

So, it's clear that an Infected character with the Regeneration power faces significant difficulty in obtaining ware.

But, what about wares the character had before they were infected? Does the retro-virus read their genetic code and reject everything not part of your original body and then regrow anything that had been replaced? Would it be able to tell Cultured Bioware apart from the rest of you?

Or does everything get a "free pass", as it were, and only new wares are a difficulty?

The former could mean a path back to (a form of) humanity for those who did not lose their limbs by choice.

The latter would mean cybered up infected nightmares....

Thoughts?

[HunterHerne]

So, it's clear that an Infected character with the Regeneration power faces significant difficulty in obtaining ware.

But, what about wares the character had before they were infected? Does the retro-virus read their genetic code and reject everything not part of your original body and then regrow anything that had been replaced? Would it be able to tell Cultured Bioware apart from the rest of you?

Or does everything get a "free pass", as it were, and only new wares are a difficulty?

The former could mean a path back to (a form of) humanity for those who did not lose their limbs by choice.

The latter would mean cybered up infected nightmares....

Thoughts?

An interesting idea. And I think it would have the same rules as the infected getting ware. The regeneration power will rip them out during transformation, unless they are deltaware. To me, this makes sense, and in universe makes a reason for some street sams who have unwillingly lost their body parts to seek the vampires.

Cultured Bioware, I would allow to the infected, since it is made from their own DNA. This is both, for new infected with previous cultured bioware, and new cultured bioware.

[Jazz]

But, what about wares the character had before they were infected?

*WARNING : gore*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmycQNOgq8

[Patrick Goodman]

So, it's clear that an Infected character with the Regeneration power faces significant difficulty in obtaining ware.

Not signifcant enough, you ask me. They shouldn't be able to get it at all, but they didn't ask me when they were doing the Runner's Companion. Giving them access to ware at all was a terrible idea. Of course, so was making them available as player character options.

But, what about wares the character had before they were infected? Does the retro-virus read their genetic code and reject everything not part of your original body and then regrow anything that had been replaced? Would it be able to tell Cultured Bioware apart from the rest of you?

Out it goes. In a fairly gruesome and painful fashion, cultured bioware and all. If you had any delta-grade cyber, I suppose you'd get to keep it under the current rules, but if I was your GM, you wouldn't.

For more details, see page 58 of Running Wild.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm pretty sure you don't keep any 'ware, delta or not.

[BishopMcQ]

Because the virus rewrites your DNA at the genetic level, I'd say that any bioware gets destroyed the same way that genetech is wiped out. (This was the case in SR3 and before)

[Paul]

Yeah I'd pretty much say no ware in an infected character. I'd probably entertain critical thinking concerning bioware, under some pretty circumstances. But then if I had a particular clever player, who had a solid concept and reasoning behind it I'd at least listen. And probably say no, but I'd listen.

[Stalag]

Giving them access to ware at all was a terrible idea. Of course, so was making them available as player character options.

Out it goes. In a fairly gruesome and painful fashion, cultured bioware and all. If you had any delta-grade cyber, I suppose you'd get to keep it under the current rules, but if I was your GM, you wouldn't.

I don't disagree and I wouldn't allow it (or try and play it), but being a somewhat undefined element in 4th I thought I'd see what general opinions were.

[Yerameyahu]

I think it's pretty cut and dried: Regeneration spits out everything, and then you can only get Delta after that. Cyberlimbs regrow into living (Infected) limbs, per Regeneration.

[Paul]

I do have this funny vision of some Vampire who keeps getting a datajack jammed into his head every few days...

[Seerow]

I do have this funny vision of some Vampire who keeps getting a datajack jammed into his head every few days...

It'd probably be cheaper to just get the delta datajack....

[Shortstraw]

Definition of Deltaware - the ware that uses roofing screws to keep it in place.

[Christian Lafay]

Definition of Deltaware - the ware that uses roofing screws to keep it in place.

Makes me thinks of something my friends and I used to do with VtM, turning our flaws and weaknesses into strengths. Now just need to get a special wood casing for the 'jack.

[Makki]

but shouldn't Type-O Bioware by definition work for everybody no matter their genetic code and blood type?

[Stahlseele]

Type-O Ware is the Standard Bioware you get if you go into a shop, point at something and tell the guy behind the counter:"500 grams of that please!"
Type-O Body means you can accept said Type-O Standard Ware as if it were Deltaware, because, technically, to your body, it IS delta, almost as good as cloned from you directly.
The Virus changes your Body from Type-O to Type-HMHVV. So no, Type-O does NOT help you here.
Also, ghouls were a special Case in SR3. Things like eyes and Datajacks and the such got mangled/pushed out. Bone-Lacing and memory banks were kept in working order.
ALL Bioware got eaten by the new Body.

[hermit]

But, what about wares the character had before they were infected? Does the retro-virus read their genetic code and reject everything not part of your original body and then regrow anything that had been replaced? Would it be able to tell Cultured Bioware apart from the rest of you?

The SR3 resolution was "cyberware is ejected, bioware absorbed" (except for ghouls, becausee OMG playable and all that). I'd just go with that.

[Stahlseele]

Also of note, ghouls had to pay double essence for cyber . . so if you had 3 points of cyber and became a ghoul?
Yup, 0 Essence. Or less, actually. Because the change from Metahuman to Ghoul takes up essence as well.

[Faraday]

This thread brings back my idea for a nigh-unstoppable ghoul cyberzombie...

[Stahlseele]

The only good thing about the CZ Ghoul is the fact that double essence loss would make it cheaper to get into negative essence . .
And maybe the Dual-Natured part/running and attribute boosts?
Hmm, wait a second . . if you only want the negative essence, why not burn down essence with drugs on the cheap first then? O.o

[hermit]

I doubt a ghoul cyberzombie would even work, given that HMHVV generally feeds on positive essence and burns out at 0. Okay, technically only once in a ghoul but still.

[Faraday]

One could claim that the HMHVV could feed off the cybermantic energy that gets pumped into every CZ. Probably would lead to a wind-down effect where the negative essence actually increases unless consistently maintained.

Alternatively, you could have an constantly ravenous ghoul. The HMHVV unable to sustain itself as easily, so the ghoul is "hungry" all the time.

[Patrick Goodman]

I doubt a ghoul cyberzombie would even work, given that HMHVV generally feeds on positive essence and burns out at 0. Okay, technically only once in a ghoul but still.

He might have a case. The Ordo is experimenting in cybermancy, after all. Not, as I recall, very successfully, but they are involved in those experiments.

I'm kind of against it and all, personally, but that shouldn't be too much of a surprise....

[Nath]

The Ordo is experimenting in cybermancy, after all. Not, as I recall, very successfully, but they are involved in those experiments.

According to Blood in the Boardroom adventure "Black Operations", the Ordo Maximus initiatory group taught Fuchi mages how to perform cybermancy. In Augmentation, a Transys researcher talk about Ordo Maximus members as "colleagues" (though it worth reminding that "Ordo Maximus" is also the name of a British gentlemen club/initiatory, not just the vampires conspiracy hidden behind).

[Patrick Goodman]

I stand corrected. There's so damn much stuff on the Ordo in itsy-bitsy pieces here and there across a lot of books, it's hard for me to remember it all. I remembered the bit in Augmentation, but it didn't sound to me like they were having a lot of success, thus my comment. I'd forgotten all about the bit in Blood in the Boardroom.

Oh, and I remember the difference. I don't know if it's worth noting sometimes, but I remember. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[CanRay]

I read the title of this thread and started thinking of cybernetic installation on pool tables for some reason...