Whats the problem with Shadowrun 3E ? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[silva]

I see a considerable number of SR veterans saying the line began to go downhill by mid 3rd edition. As someone who played a lot of SR 2nd ed, but just a couple of 3rd edition games (my group desintegrated around its release), I don’t understand this sentiment, but would like to.

Someone care to explain ?


P.S: the only thing I remember my group felt was a change in tone/atmosphere, straying away from the more gritty/dark vibe of 1e and 2e, to a more colourful/action! one, if that makes any sense. And even if does, it doesn’t have anything to do with the quality of writing or ideas in plot/splash books really.

[JonathanC]

Hmm....I've been thinking about this myself, having felt rather nostalgic for the 3E days recently. I think there was a point where the books became more power creep-y, and the fluff seemed lazier. Compare a book like Shadows of North America, which just has paragraph summaries of events going on, to a book like Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America, and you'll have a sense of the problem, I think.

Early on 4th Ed. had some similar issues, but I'm happy to say that after SR4A the practice of including more illustrations/fiction with the fluff material has added a bit of flavor back to the game. Now my only complaint is that the game seems too...modern. The future as seen in earlier SR editions was unique and weird, because it was based on wild speculation from the 80's and 90's. Now SR technology is extrapolated from real-world tech that we have now, so it feels more like a modern fantasy game than the future. Also, not enough pink mohawks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Well, the future is here. We don't have as many forward thinkers than we did in the '20s-'80s... I mean, hell, we're flying cars and jetpacks away from the future being NOW.

Even an imaginative type such as myself who was fed on sci-fi along with breast milk has a hard time wondering what's next...

[JonathanC]

Well, the future is here. We don't have as many forward thinkers than we did in the '20s-'80s... I mean, hell, we're flying cars and jetpacks away from the future being NOW.

Even an imaginative type such as myself who was fed on sci-fi along with breast milk has a hard time wondering what's next...

It's more of a design thing for me. The tech in modern SR books has product design matching modern tastes, rather than the exotic designs of old. I remember SR3 rules well enough to know that I don't want to go back, but I want some of that flavor. I miss the cables and cyberdecks, for some reason.

[CanRay]

I do as well. But that's probably because I had to deal with Wireless and idiots using it when they shouldn't far too often IRL.

Hardwired connections have a lot of advantages and abilities that wireless just doesn't. Yet. 2070s time and tech, maybe.

EDIT: It's also one of the reasons that my corner is so tear stained... I have less issues with cyberdecks being "Gone", but really think that there should be something of similar size and power. Yes yes yes, Nexi, I know.

[Bigity]

I still like 2nd edition best overall, with flavors of 3rd. Like the new initiative passes in 3rd. The VR2/SR3 decking rules (vs base SR2).

Most of all, it's a fluff thing. Yea, the whole NAN thing was a big stretch, but it set Shadowrun apart in being pretty unique. You had alot of solid writing for several years. The shadowtalk alone was what made alot of the 2nd edition books, and many 3rd edition. The Jackpoint stuff now? Doesn't hold my attention.

The current edition I think tries too hard to reconcile stuff from SR1-3 and the modern world. I don't care that we have smartphones today. Pocket Secretaries are freaking cool. Commlinks are lame. Decks are awesome. Wireless technology makes alot of sense. Jacking your brain with something that looks like a stereo cable is just part of the game, IMO.

I like most of the SR3 rules, but my rose colored glasses are probably keeping me from remembering a bunch of the problems with em.

[CanRay]

*Pouts* I never knew those days. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Platinum]

I see a considerable number of SR veterans saying the line began to go downhill by mid 3rd edition. As someone who played a lot of SR 2nd ed, but just a couple of 3rd edition games (my group desintegrated around its release), I don’t understand this sentiment, but would like to.

Someone care to explain ?

P.S: the only thing I remember my group felt was a change in tone/atmosphere, straying away from the more gritty/dark vibe of 1e and 2e, to a more colourful/action! one, if that makes any sense. And even if does, it doesn’t have anything to do with the quality of writing or ideas in plot/splash books really.

By Mid 3rd, there really wasn't alot of "new" stuff coming out. Novels had basically stopped, and material was just a rehash of old. Although the layout quality of the books was improving, the material that made it interesting and gritty was disappearing. The shadowtalk just wasn't as appealing as it was before.

Shadowrun was starting to pull in more transhumanism. Cyberware was going no where because all of the tech that could be thought of, was thought of. The killing of a major meta-char, Dunky also dropped some of the atmosphere. They tried to replace him with an uber version, but there wasn't a personality that someone could grow attached to anymore. Culture also changed. The japanese takeovers which much of shadowrun was based on, gave out to the great chinese sellout.

Man I miss Dowd, Findley and the 80's.

[CanRay]

The world's changed, and Shadowrun has tried to change with it. And, let's face it, life *ISN'T* as gritty as it was in the '80s.

I'm not saying it's rainbows and free beer, but it's not wondering WHEN the world is going to end with a sure certainty that it was at any moment.

[Bigity]

It's not helping my nostalgia factor by reading through all the old sourcebooks from SR1 on. Currently in NAN 1.

[JonathanC]

The world's changed, and Shadowrun has tried to change with it. And, let's face it, life *ISN'T* as gritty as it was in the '80s.

I'm not saying it's rainbows and free beer, but it's not wondering WHEN the world is going to end with a sure certainty that it was at any moment.

Yeah, but who says the game has to look like the real world? I enjoy playing Pathfinder and L5R because the world is nothing like the modern world. I don't see why Shadowrun couldn't have just remained on separate fork from reality; it diverges from our history in the early 00's anyway.

[CanRay]

Could be worse. Could be Cyberpunk V.3. *Shudders*

[Bigity]

Yeah, but who says the game has to look like the real world? I enjoy playing Pathfinder and L5R because the world is nothing like the modern world. I don't see why Shadowrun couldn't have just remained on separate fork from reality; it diverges from our history in the early 00's anyway.

I think this was done in order to draw from a bigger audience. New gamers these days have little to no idea (in general) about the concepts and social trends of the 80s that birthed SR.

Some D&D kiddie is not going to routinely pick up a book talking about decking and rigging and have any idea what that is. Hacking, however, is a buzzword that's all over the place. And while I applaud the attempt to 'steamline' the rules, I really can't stand the current dice rolling mechanics, but previous editions were dang complex in many sections.

[CanRay]

I think this was done in order to draw from a bigger audience. New gamers these days have little to no idea (in general) about the concepts and social trends of the 80s that birthed SR.

Thanks, I *ALMOST* made it a whole day without feeling old.

*Sighs* When the hell did it start happening to people when they were in their late-20s?

[Bigity]

Late 20s? Bah.

I'm going to be 60+ when my youngest graduates college (Lord willing, *fingers crossed*). That makes me feel old.

[CanRay]

I started feeling old (When I first had to explain the "Cold War" to someone) when I was 26. That was years ago, and it's only gotten worse.

I've had to explain "Punk" to people! They'd hardly heard it as even an insult, forget the style of life. *Sighs* Are we all past our "Best-Before" dates?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Late 20s? Bah.

I'm going to be 60+ when my youngest graduates college (Lord willing, *fingers crossed*). That makes me feel old.

You and me both...

[Platinum]

The world's changed, and Shadowrun has tried to change with it. And, let's face it, life *ISN'T* as gritty as it was in the '80s.

I'm not saying it's rainbows and free beer, but it's not wondering WHEN the world is going to end with a sure certainty that it was at any moment.

I wonder what shadowrun would be like if it stayed more true to its roots. the cold ware and world war 2 stuff still have their appeal... so does noir. too bad they messed with something that worked. just show people max headroom and they will "get it"

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I wonder what shadowrun would be like if it stayed more true to its roots. the cold ware and world war 2 stuff still have their appeal... so does noir. too bad they messed with something that worked. just show people max headroom and they will "get it"

If you can even FIND Max Headroom. ")

[KarmaInferno]

The ol' head hasn't aged so well. Not well at all. He's even doing gameshows.

You can find him on Netflix though.




-k

[CanRay]

You can find him on Netflix though.

-k

Not in Canada. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I like that they aged him at least. The actor looks pretty good for his age, at least. Jim Carey did a version of him as well, IIRC. Damn, I remember staying up late to catch the show...

[Bull]

The ol' head hasn't aged so well. Not well at all. He's even doing gameshows.

You can find him on Netflix though.

Dunno what you're talking about here, Karma. Max looks glorious to me. GLORIOUS!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Dunno what you're talking about here, Karma. Max looks glorious to me. GLORIOUS!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

He does need to upgrade to a flatscreen, however. Other than that, his outfit does look more comfortable than it did in the '80s.

[KarmaInferno]

But he says not to buy flat screens!



-k

[CanRay]

Not buy, RENT! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)