[X] My Assistant

[Lionhearted]

That an elf, ork or dwarf with the human looking quality is still recognisable as their respective metatype under closer inspection.
Read the quality. It uses terms as "pass as human in most social circumstances" and "trying to hard to "look human""

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That an elf, ork or dwarf with the human looking quality is still recognisable as their respective metatype under closer inspection.
Read the quality. It uses terms as "pass as human in most social circumstances" and "trying to hard to "look human""

Most, however, does mean exactly that... MOST. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

You'd probably still look odd for a "human"

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You'd probably still look odd for a "human"

Not really; if you did, you would defeat the purpose of Human Looking. *shrug*
Please don't think I am touting Human Looking as a be-all end-all, becasue I do not think that. It just seems that your POV horribly clashes with the material presented. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

What goes as human looking although?
Would a human looking Ork look like Dolph Lundgren or That Football hooligan with bad teeth?

Nothing implies that you're ordinary looking, just that your meta-expressions are subtle enough for you to pass as a human most of the time.

[Umidori]

Humans can see in the dark?!

Yes, in real life there is a great variance of human night vision. Some humans have exceptionally keen night vision. Others, not so much. Where do you draw the line? Hard to say.

• There're distinct meta features that humans simply do not replicate, low-light capable eyes will have a different structure and shape then those of humans (look at any animal with keen vision and notice the differences) just as much as you will not find a human with natural dermal deposits.

How do you explain the Night Vision positive quality? It's not exclusively metagenetic. Any mundane, non-Surged human can have low light vision. Dermal deposits, however, arguably are exclusively metagenetic, in that they are only present in trolls and changelings.

• Metagenes are immune to dilution, meaning that elven features will stay elven no matter how the genes are muddled or mixed up, you're either meta or your not. The same is true for metavariants. It's completely Impossible to have an half-oni/half-ork with features from both parents, you're either one or the other and drift doesn't occur. Source: Runner's companion

What does it actually mean to be an elf, though? It means that the metagenes in your DNA coded for "Elf Traits" are switched "On". You are correct that you can't dilute metagenes, and that you can't be half-meta. If your parents are of two different metatypes, you'll either only have one set of metagenes activated, or if both are active you'll end up human because they cancel each other out.

Metagenes are an important factor in what makes a metatype a metatype, yes. For example, Elven metagenes clearly result in extended lifespans compared to humans, a trait which is distinctly and exclusively metagenetic. Pointed ears are likewise a metagenetic trait, expressed by both elves and orks, but they're clearly not exclusively metagenetic, as humans can and do possess naturally pointed ears. Greater than average height and slimmer than average builds may also be metagenetic, but again, they aren't exclusively so, as humans are just as capable of having those same builds.

Metagenes are still genes, and they don't create exact results. Metagenes influence physical expression, just as ordinary genes do. An Ork may always be going to express Tusks, sure, as that's a trait which is coded for by the Orkish metagenes. But those tusks aren't always going to be the same size. Some orks will have massive tusks, others will have tiny ones. Similarly, while the Orkish metagenes code for heavier, more muscular builds, the degree of influence those genes actually have is going to vary greatly dependant on the individual. Some orks will be hulking monstrosities, while others might be more comparable to a human who is simply in decent athletic shape. The metagenes code for the heavy build, but how much or how little that trait is expressed can vary wildly.

• Metatypes are distinctly not human! They have their own variances for build, skeletal structure, muscle density, body fat, giving them distinct features different from humans!

Source for the part after the first sentence, please? I know that in terms of magical theory, yes, they are distinctly not human (as well as "sufficiently human" at the same time), but we're not talking magical theory.

I'll admit that metatypes have their own averages for their physical forms. Elves "tend" to be taller and slimmer, Orks "tend" to be more heavily built, etc. But the upper and lower bounds of the variances overlap with human appearances. Being tall and slight of build is not unique to elves. You do not need Elven metagenes to have those traits. And likewise, being of average height and average build is not unique to humans. You do not need to lack Elven metagenes to have those traits, even if you're more likely to express those traits if you do lack them.

~Umi

[Halinn]

Pointed ears are likewise a metagenetic trait, expressed by both elves and orks, but they're clearly not exclusively metagenetic, as humans can and do possess naturally pointed ears.

Unexpressed elven traits due to our low magic level.

[Lionhearted]

Last point? Assumptions mostly, Dwarves clearly have higher muscle density given the fact that they are stronger then humans despite their size.
Elves are more lightly built as their average weight is only 2kg more despite having over a decimeter in length advantage, either they have lower body fat, lighter bony structure or are generally more "stretched out".
Orks are markantly heavier and sturdier then humans, despite having "human like proportions" surely length alone doesn't account for 40kg?
Stuff like that...

[Umidori]

Last point? Assumptions mostly.

You know what they say about assumptions... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Dwarves clearly have higher muscle density given the fact that they are stronger then humans despite their size.

Dwarves on average are stronger than humans, despite their average smaller size. Some dwarves are weaker than humans. Some humans are dwarf height.

Elves are more lightly built as their average weight is only 2kg more despite having over a decimeter in length advantage, either they have lower body fat, lighter bony structure or are generally more "stretched out".

Same response, we're talking averages. Elves aren't magically exactly 2kg heavier and 10 centimeters taller than humans (which humans, by the way? Oh right, average ones). Some humans are "average" elf height and weight. Some elves are "average" human height and weight.

Orks are markedly heavier and sturdier then humans, despite having "human like proportions" surely length alone doesn't account for 40kg?

You know the drill by now, I'm sure. Not all orks are 40 kilos heavier than all humans, some humans are 40 kilos heavier than other humans of identical proportions, some orks are scrawnier than humans of identical proportions, et cetera.

Now how about any of the other points?

~Umi

[Lionhearted]

You're getting hooked up on averages, they're not arbitrary numbers either. They show trends and correlations, and if the average falls within a certain range you can make certain deductions.
Like, elves are generally taller then human but they're also generally lighter.
Why is that? The average human of that length would be expected to be much heavier...
Also you need to reference within the same frame. Some dwarves are stronger then humans, most dwarves are stronger then dwarf sized humans. There's another correlation that makes you look for causation.
Even then Averages function off a bell curve so the shortest elf is still beyond the range of the shortest human, variables have limits.

What other points are you refering to?
Metagenetics is stupid on so many levels that it's not even worth trying to argue what's genetic or not, it's all macguffin.

[Umidori]

The point I'm making about averages is that they are derived from, as you yourself say, a certain range of qualities.

There is absolutely no reason why an Elf cannot look like, and I quote, "a generic human only with pointy ears". It falls well within reasonable extremes of the spectrum of Elven physiology. Yes, the average elf is typically taller and thinner than a generic human. That does not, however, in any way preclude the possibility of a somewhat non-average elf looking like the "generic human only with pointy ears" that you claimed shouldn't ever exist.

As for the "other points" I'm referring to, those would be all the points I made in my prior post? The post which you responded to the "Last Point" of with your "assumptions" argument, and which you ignored all the rest of?

And considering you were the one who even brought up metagenes in the first place, to suddenly turn around and now say they're stupid and unfit to argue over, that just smacks of "Sour Grapes" to my ears, and I am genuinely astounded at your having done so.

~Umi

[Tashiro]

I remember this picture from last year, and I remember the person the character was made for commenting about it. She's an oni, and she dresses like that to 1) have fun, and 2) cause people to underestimate her (IIRC). I actually love this picture, I love the concept. Fun was had by all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(Or, 'don't yuk another person's yum')

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

(Or, 'don't yuk another person's yum')

Heh... Awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

(Or, 'don't yuk another person's yum')

I'm going to have to steal this at some point.
I will, however, say that you can question it (e.g. "why do you like it?")

[Tashiro]

I'm going to have to steal this at some point.
I will, however, say that you can question it (e.g. "why do you like it?")

Oh, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Oh, and the usual way to say it is: 'Don't yuk my yum'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Lionhearted]

the possibility of a somewhat non-average elf looking like the "generic human only with pointy ears" that you claimed shouldn't ever exist.

From an artistic point of view?
Yes, it's lazy and show lack creativity or talent.
From an game point of view... I'm going to stick with, close enough to be mistaken for one.
Dogs and wolves.

And considering you were the one who even brought up metagenes in the first place, to suddenly turn around and now say they're stupid and unfit to argue over, that just smacks of "Sour Grapes" to my ears, and I am genuinely astounded at your having done so.

I used the canon explanations to back up my claims, that doesn't mean I think it's sound. Metagenetics is hella stupid and it's kinda pointless arguing the mechanics of it (I only stated the "facts" put forth)
It's hard to reasonably argue something when the basis is: Because magic.

So I simply answered how I justified my assumptions because that's something I can attend to using facts.

Don't yuck someone's yum

Browse 4chan or Deviantart long enough and you'll regret you said that...

[CanRay]

Browse ... Deviantart long enough and you'll regret you said that...

Thanks...

[Tashiro]

Been there. I don't have to like what I see, but I'm willing to accept someone else likes it. The rule still stands.

Caveat: I draw the line when it involves hurting someone (or something, such as an animal), of course. Cruelty isn't to be tolerated, but I'm pretty sure people can understand that.

[Lionhearted]

Someone once told me that the reason you see so many strange things come out of Japan, is because the culture embraces the fact that a fantasy is just that... A fantasy, it can't harm anyone and it everyone should be allowed to let their mind wander how they please.
(Also stuff about how restrictive working life can be and the stark separation between personal time and work time)
Don't know how true it is, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[CanRay]

I just made Cupcake's player squee, BTW.

[Tashiro]

I just made Cupcake's player squee, BTW.

Oh, that's just awesome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Umidori]

Get that bitch a rainbow cannon. Bitches love rainbow cannons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I just made Cupcake's player squee, BTW.

Where can I order a Set? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

Caveat: I draw the line when it involves hurting someone (or something, such as an animal), of course. Cruelty isn't to be tolerated, but I'm pretty sure people can understand that.

While I agree with you, there's a point where even that has to be set aside.

I'm not kidding. I have seen the following text role-play ad, from a female character:
"I like large boys! Rape her until you get bored or she expires!"

Think about it for a minute.

Yes.

That's exactly what she wanted people to do to her.

[X-Kalibur]

While I agree with you, there's a point where even that has to be set aside.

I'm not kidding. I have seen the following text role-play ad, from a female character:
"I like large boys! Rape her until you get bored or she expires!"

Think about it for a minute.

Yes.

That's exactly what she wanted people to do to her.

How does that line go? You can't rape the willing?