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 Real Life Shadowrun: Police Drones with Weapons, This can't be good. |
 Oct 30 2011, 06:23 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 213 Joined: 19-August 10 Member No.: 18,949  |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 29 2011, 04:45 PM)  It's the user we're concerned about, Erik. And if that user doesn't have these toys, he can't abuse them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) By that logic, no one should have a car, so they won't run anyone over; no one should be allowed a knife because they might cut something other than their steak. I disagree with that logic. |
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Oct 30 2011, 09:22 AM
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#27
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
I think the big difference between this and a police helicopter, is that the latter is noisy as hell.
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Oct 30 2011, 09:23 AM
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#28
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
QUOTE (Erik Baird @ Oct 30 2011, 08:23 AM) By that logic, no one should have a car, so they won't run anyone over; no one should be allowed a knife because they might cut something other than their steak. I disagree with that logic. Well in some parts of the world you need to get fair bit of training before you allowed behind the controls of a car... |
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Oct 30 2011, 02:27 PM
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#29
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
There's really no need to go to extremes, Erik; slippery slope isn't a very useful argument. Everything is obviously a balancing act to find that spot in the middle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What we do know is that (some!) police *often* abuse the options available to them (more notably in these protest situations, but how many taser incidents have you heard, etc.?), and we also know some initial things about drones (in military applications). These are enough to give serious pause.
We do have knife and gun laws, we do have driver's licensing, we do have traffic laws, etc. Obviously, the world rejects the extreme end of your position just as much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 30 2011, 02:58 PM
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#30
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Sir Terry Pratchett is upset over knife laws, BTW. He's a knight of the realm, yet can't carry his sword around. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Oct 30 2011, 03:08 PM
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#31
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
It is a nice sword. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Again, I'm just illustrating that radical deregulation is just as crazy as radical regulation-'ism'. There's plenty of reason to be concerned about something like flying police drones with a variety of serious weapons (and in the hands of Texans ;P ).
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Oct 30 2011, 03:15 PM
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#32
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
Hell, I'd hate it being in the hands of the cops back home.
"Hey guys, watch this!" *BLAM* "That's what the Hi-Ex Grenades can do!" "SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!" |
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Oct 30 2011, 04:15 PM
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#33
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 30 2011, 09:08 AM) It is a nice sword. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Again, I'm just illustrating that radical deregulation is just as crazy as radical regulation-'ism'. There's plenty of reason to be concerned about something like flying police drones with a variety of serious weapons (and in the hands of Texans ;P ). Texans are very responsible and law abiding people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 30 2011, 04:19 PM
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#34
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
When they're not drunk.
"Here, hold my beer. I wanna try something." -k formerly a Texas resident |
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Oct 30 2011, 04:27 PM
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#35
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 30 2011, 10:19 AM) When they're not drunk. "Here, hold my beer. I wanna try something." -k formerly a Texas resident Heh... Often very true... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Also Former Resident... |
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Oct 30 2011, 05:15 PM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,019 Joined: 10-November 10 From: Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia Member No.: 19,166 |
All these former Texans, and one of my players is from Texas (we play on skype). He's working with the military overseas, so not home often, and I have to ask, is there a reason I only know of former residents, and not current residents?
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Oct 30 2011, 05:21 PM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 5-March 09 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Member No.: 16,941 |
The only problem that I can see with this type of drone is escalation. If the police have a drone that can fly in and subdue subjects how will the criminal element react to this?
I know hacking was mentioned earlier in this thread, while I doubt it who knows. another possibility is for the criminal organizations to get their own drones. "We start carrying semi automatics, they buy automatics, we start wearing Kevlar, they buy armor piercing rounds," Jim Gordon Just food for thought anyways. Relecs |
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Oct 30 2011, 05:29 PM
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#38
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Oct 30 2011, 12:15 PM) All these former Texans, and one of my players is from Texas (we play on skype). He's working with the military overseas, so not home often, and I have to ask, is there a reason I only know of former residents, and not current residents? Do you know of me? Look at my "From" park to the side there... |
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Oct 30 2011, 05:32 PM
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#39
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 30 2011, 09:27 AM) What we do know is that (some!) police *often* abuse the options available to them (more notably in these protest situations... Don't get me started on these protests. How long do police officers have to deal with a group that is a health risk, defecates in public (and on police vehicles), rapes, does drugs, and is naked in public before they finally forcibly disperse them. There's a limit to how much civil disobedience you can take, and apparently it's about a MONTH AND A HALF. |
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Oct 30 2011, 05:50 PM
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#40
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Oct 30 2011, 10:15 AM) All these former Texans, and one of my players is from Texas (we play on skype). He's working with the military overseas, so not home often, and I have to ask, is there a reason I only know of former residents, and not current residents? I had to move because of the Heat. After the Gulf War, I could no longer tolerate the 8 months of Summer in San Antonio. So I moved to Denver. At least here, there are 4 actual seasons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 30 2011, 06:09 PM
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#41
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Uh huh, Neraph. Public health and nests of rape is the reason they're hurting people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) But, this is not at all about politics, so… I *didn't* get you started. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's about nifty SR-esque tech, and of course the basic inability of people to responsibly handle power, especially in the form of flying weaponized drones.
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Oct 30 2011, 07:07 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 213 Joined: 19-August 10 Member No.: 18,949 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 30 2011, 07:27 AM) There's really no need to go to extremes, Erik; slippery slope isn't a very useful argument. Everything is obviously a balancing act to find that spot in the middle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What we do know is that (some!) police *often* abuse the options available to them (more notably in these protest situations, but how many taser incidents have you heard, etc.?), and we also know some initial things about drones (in military applications). These are enough to give serious pause. We do have knife and gun laws, we do have driver's licensing, we do have traffic laws, etc. Obviously, the world rejects the extreme end of your position just as much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's part of my point. The presence of a tool doesn't somehow make people want to ab-use the tool; it's the person using the tool. The person is using an available tool that suits their need. If one tool isn't available, they will find another way to do what they want, whether the person is a vindictive cop or thuggish yob. |
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Oct 31 2011, 12:47 AM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,424 Joined: 7-December 09 From: Freedonia Member No.: 17,952 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 30 2011, 03:27 PM) There's really no need to go to extremes, Erik; slippery slope isn't a very useful argument. Everything is obviously a balancing act to find that spot in the middle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What we do know is that (some!) police *often* abuse the options available to them (more notably in these protest situations, but how many taser incidents have you heard, etc.?), and we also know some initial things about drones (in military applications). These are enough to give serious pause. We do have knife and gun laws, we do have driver's licensing, we do have traffic laws, etc. Obviously, the world rejects the extreme end of your position just as much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Knife laws? as in laws against stabbing people? |
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Oct 31 2011, 03:36 AM
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#44
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Laws about ownership and the carrying of bladed weapons.
Britain particularly has about the most restrictive knife laws on the planet. -k |
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Oct 31 2011, 03:44 AM
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#45
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Erik, this is hardly a new argument, so you know my lines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Yes, a bad person might do bad things regardless… but having more powerful tools significantly alters their potential bad things. In addition, more powerful tools also significantly increase the potential for *mistakes* to be bigger or worse.
In a job where dehumanizing effects are so endemic and problematic, a remote drone is a particular issue. It's like you didn't even *watch* the Robocop series. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Oct 31 2011, 04:32 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 213 Joined: 19-August 10 Member No.: 18,949 |
I guess we'll have to disagree about what to make of evil men and their toys....
And no, I never did see the Robocop cartoons. After seeing what they did with the second movie, I didn't want to watch anymore of those, either. |
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Oct 31 2011, 04:53 AM
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#47
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Not the cartoons (?), the movies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Oct 31 2011, 07:04 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 328 Joined: 3-March 10 Member No.: 18,233 |
Isn't the drone a dumb drone (and by dumb drone, i mean a drone w/o a Pilot program). If so, then a member of the police will have to be actively piloting/guiding the thing. If some criminal hacks it, then they actively have to do it... which is crime (not like they care), but it ups the level of intent & such. In court, premeditation & intent carry heavier weight. As for shooting it out of the sky... self explanatory.
The police have been using helicopters for a while & no airborne dogfights between police & criminals have occurred yet. So I don't see crooks escalating to having their own airdrones. If they do... well then, that's a new direction & level of debate we can all chime in on. |
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Oct 31 2011, 01:11 PM
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#49
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Frag, one more thing flying through my yard. I just hope they're quieter than the ghetto birds the po-po fly over my house now.
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Oct 31 2011, 02:04 PM
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#50
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 30 2011, 12:09 PM) Uh huh, Neraph. Public health and nests of rape is the reason they're hurting people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) But, this is not at all about politics, so… I *didn't* get you started. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's about nifty SR-esque tech, and of course the basic inability of people to responsibly handle power, especially in the form of flying weaponized drones. I barely got started. I could rant about them for a while (and make valid points while doing it, too). In any event: knife laws are interesting. I think it's Austin (maybe Houston) that has a law against carrying any lock-bladed knife, yet they do not have any laws against carrying the otherwise-legal sheath-bladed knives. So in effect you cannot carry a 1-inch folding knife but can walk freely with a 5.5 inch fixed knife sheathed at your hip. They had a semi-valid reason for it*, but that's silly now. A group of thugs in about 1987 decided to hold people up by weakening the screws on their folding blades so they could flick their wrists and the knife blade would snap out and lock, similar to but not exactly like a switch blade. They used that as a method of intimidation (and it worked), so the city outlawed all folding knives. Let's ignore that criminals by definition break laws and restrict the possibility of the law-abiding citizen to live freely, and let's also ignore the illogic of outlawing 1-inch folding knives while still allowing 5.5 inch knives that require a sheath. Yeah. |
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