Left over nuyen Options

[Ol' Scratch]

I am so glad I don't read cyberpunk fiction. I tried Gibson and that guy could bore me to tears faster than a podcast. At any rate I think Cyberpunk is one of those terms that's grown to include a lot more than it's roots, and I don't think either of you are off base-rather I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you feel the need to closely mirror a Gibson novel at your table-have at it. If something else flips your switch-have at it!

Considering that Shadowrun isn't cyberpunk, but merely borrowed from that genre (as well as dozens of others) to create its own, it's really a moot point anyway. Shadowrun is Shadowrun. Having a scuzzy ganger in the group is just as valid as having a well-to-do college professor, a ridiculously rich kid out for a thrill, or a prostitute trying to work her way out from under her pimp's iron grasp. It's up to the player to determine their reasons to be there. Forcing them all to be poor is just silly.

[Ascalaphus]

The middle book of the Sprawl Trilogy, which is certainly a founding document of the cyberpunk genre, features Turner, a professional shadowrunner who is certainly not on the poor side.

[Daylen]

Considering that Shadowrun isn't cyberpunk, but merely borrowed from that genre (as well as dozens of others) to create its own, it's really a moot point anyway. Shadowrun is Shadowrun. Having a scuzzy ganger in the group is just as valid as having a well-to-do college professor, a ridiculously rich kid out for a thrill, or a prostitute trying to work her way out from under her pimp's iron grasp. It's up to the player to determine their reasons to be there. Forcing them all to be poor is just silly.

Are you suggesting Elves are not cyberpunk?

[CanRay]

Are you suggesting Elves are not cyberpunk?

Depends on how they're run/written.

But that's true of anything.

[Paul]

Are you suggesting Elves are not cyberpunk?

Well they've been subsumed into what we now know as Shaodwrun's version of Cyberpunk. But yeah in the strictest sense Elves, much of Shaodwrun's magic isn't Cyberpunk-as the genre is typically defined.(Oddly enough Shadowrun isn't even listed on that pages list of Games! Bastards!) The good news is a couple of cats ignored the crap out of that when they wrote first edition of the game. Personally I'm a fan of the addition of Fantasy elements like metahumans and magic to the genre! I even like the 4th World!

I suspect that if William Gibson showed up at my table he'd love the Dystopian setting, the feel of my game. But yeah I suspect he'd be a little put off by the fact that some some characters in the game can incinerate the Megacorporate goon squads with a thought! (Or several if the dice don't fall their way...)

[CanRay]

Raymond Chandler and Mickey Spillane would feel at home at my table. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Paul]

I serve a good meal, and run a good game so who knows?

[Fabe]

Well they've been subsumed into what we now know as Shaodwrun's version of Cyberpunk. But yeah in the strictest sense Elves, much of Shaodwrun's magic isn't Cyberpunk-as the genre is typically defined.(Oddly enough Shadowrun isn't even listed on that pages list of Games! Bastards!) The good news is a couple of cats ignored the crap out of that when they wrote first edition of the game. Personally I'm a fan of the addition of Fantasy elements like metahumans and magic to the genre! I even like the 4th World!

I suspect that if William Gibson showed up at my table he'd love the Dystopian setting, the feel of my game. But yeah I suspect he'd be a little put off by the fact that some some characters in the game can incinerate the Megacorporate goon squads with a thought! (Or several if the dice don't fall their way...)

Gibson does not like the way shadowrun mixes his cyberpunk writings with elves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun#Influences_and_links

[CanRay]

That's what the chains around his chair are for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Daylen]

Well they've been subsumed into what we now know as Shaodwrun's version of Cyberpunk. But yeah in the strictest sense Elves, much of Shaodwrun's magic isn't Cyberpunk-as the genre is typically defined.(Oddly enough Shadowrun isn't even listed on that pages list of Games! Bastards!) The good news is a couple of cats ignored the crap out of that when they wrote first edition of the game. Personally I'm a fan of the addition of Fantasy elements like metahumans and magic to the genre! I even like the 4th World!

I suspect that if William Gibson showed up at my table he'd love the Dystopian setting, the feel of my game. But yeah I suspect he'd be a little put off by the fact that some some characters in the game can incinerate the Megacorporate goon squads with a thought! (Or several if the dice don't fall their way...)

Do I need to use [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] next time? I seem to have been too subtle.

[Daylen]

Gibson does not like the way shadowrun mixes his cyberpunk writings with elves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun#Influences_and_links

Gibson can suck wind. He doesn't and never did own cyberpunk, and certainly not the idea of dystopia.

[Glyph]

The default game rules limit starting cash, although you can certainly begin play as someone who is rich - you merely don't have a lot of cash on hand (although someone with a high lifestyle can start out with 4d6 x 500 plus 6,000 Nuyen). You can change that, as well as the rules limiting how much you can spend on Attributes, how much you can spend or resources, or what ratings and Availability you can start out with. The restrictions are mainly for new players, both to keep them from overspending in one area at the expense of another, and to discourage some (but by no means all) kinds of min-maxing.

I prefer Shadowrun's mish-mash of genres to classic cyberpunk, which has not aged well, although it has forever changed and expanded the traditional sci-fi genre.

[Paul]

Do I need to use [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] next time? I seem to have been too subtle.

I swear I'm better in real life! Heh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Daylen]

I"m still a bit confused as to how the starting nuyen rules can be "abused".

[CanRay]

You start with so much that it doesn't matter if you 'Run or not. And that's not really the point of the game.

It's to keep the characters hungry for more, or always looking for the big score that gets them out of the game or set up for the big time 'Runs.

[Christian Lafay]

The vicious cycle. Get a job. Get money. Get gear. Get better job. Get better money. Get better gear. Ad infinitum ad nauseum.

[CanRay]

Until the job/screw-over happens where you lose all that gear, your squat, your fancy car, your boy/girltoy...

Then set up the Roaring Rampage of Revenge!

[Ol' Scratch]

I"m still a bit confused as to how the starting nuyen rules can be "abused".

The only way it can be abused is by getting around the Availability/Rating rules, and then only by assuming the GM lets you buy whatever you want, especially right after the game begins.

Otherwise it's absolutely a complete and utter non-issue.

[Christian Lafay]

I"m still a bit confused as to how the starting nuyen rules can be "abused".

It gets really bad when you used the Advanced Lifestyles rules, so I'm going to give that example. You take the minimum Luxury Lifestyle available (for extra cheese give it problems that lower the price even more for the first, or only, month you live there). So you roll 4D6 x a grand. Now you can add 12 to the roll for the price of 1,200. So for saving 1,200 from character creation you can have between 16,000 and 36,000 in your wallet when you hit the streets. If I did the math and everything right. Doing this from memory.

[Daylen]

You start with so much that it doesn't matter if you 'Run or not. And that's not really the point of the game.

It's to keep the characters hungry for more, or always looking for the big score that gets them out of the game or set up for the big time 'Runs.

How much starting cash can you start with in 4e? In 3e I'd say you're nuts if you thought you didn't need to run because of starting funds.

[MortVent]

People run for many reasons.

Some do it because it's all they know how to do, because the corp they worked for dumped them as expendable, they came back from the desert wars unable to reintegrate as a civilian, because it seems like a good way to piss off mom and dad.

Or because it's the only chance short of joining a gang/syndicate of survival in a Z zone.

Each character has a reason, like all things. If I am the GM and you are playing a sprawl ganger turned runner, I expect your character generation to match that (lots of close combat skills, decent firearm skills, some etiquette and a heavy focus on intimidation over politeness though. Gear that looks reasonable, possibly a low lifestyle. What I don't expect is basic skills, high lifestyle, and enough ware to outfit a fire team)

[Christian Lafay]

How much starting cash can you start with in 4e? In 3e I'd say you're nuts if you thought you didn't need to run because of starting funds.

Up to thirty-six thousand new-ones.

[Daylen]

Up to thirty-six thousand new-ones.

As a one off? I'm reminded of a nerdy quote "At last, we can retire and give up this life of crime. " 36k isn't that much. It puts the runner above street level lifestyle, but its not exactly a life of luxury.

[Christian Lafay]

As a one off? I'm reminded of a nerdy quote "At last, we can retire and give up this life of crime. " 36k isn't that much. It puts the runner above street level lifestyle, but its not exactly a life of luxury.

True. It's more for a decade retirement in a coffin hotel.

[Glyph]

You can certainly start out with a character who is a simporn actor or rock star, with national fame, a trust fund, and a liesurely 20-hour day job, who lives a high lifestyle and gets 13,500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per month on top of that. So why would such a character run the shadows? That's up to the player. Maybe even that much money doesn't satisfy the character's greed, or vices, or debts from gambling and other self-destructive impulses. Maybe the character is a jaded adrenaline addict, or someone who wants to be authentically "street". Maybe the character is an idealist who wants to strike out at the corporations instead of mere punditry about their depredations.

If you make such a character and can't answer that question, then congrats, your character doesn't run the shadows but just does his thing for a living, now make another character who does have a frickin' reason to be a shadowrunner! I mean, honestly, the whole "start with lots of money so I don't have to run the shadows" is shooting yourself in the foot, considering that running the shadows is kind of, you know, the premise of the game and all.