Resolution to CGL Issues, Trying to get closure on 2010's Great Unpleasantness Options

[coolgrafix]

Gang, originally posted this elsewhere but was asked to move it...

So I'm away from the game for a few years and everything goes to drek. =) Just got done reading threads and updates through May of 2010 on The Great Unpleasantness. Did it go to trial? What was the outcome? I am holding a Limited Edition SR4A in my hands, and CGL/BattleShop appear to be going concerns. Did the whole thing just smooth over and life continued, or did they go bankrupt and restructure? Did Post Human et al get satisfaction in court? Guessing the PACK system I'm looking at here in my Runners Toolkit isn't Ancient History's. How does it differ? Looks like AH's lore archive is no longer online. GAH!

Can someone summarize?

There are plenty of threads around that cover things in detail.

But I guess a summary would be:

Someone at CGL (or maybe In Media Res) made some no-nos in regards to accounting methods and co-mingling of funds
Freelancers weren't being paid/paid on time
CGL was thought to be sure to lose the SR license
Bunch of people quit/refused to release their material already written
CGL kept the license
CGL put out some material that was already written and some questionable material that had to be completed anew after some material was withheld from various writers
SR started making money again and the products seem to be getting better
Errata is still a thing that is 'being worked on'.

I'm not certain everything I attribute to CGL was actually a CGL issue, I can't recall off-hand who owns what etc.

I'll be honest, and the fallout from the stuff still has me very wary to purchase SR products, which is a bummer.

The owner of CGL built his mansion using company funds. So the freelancers, their printers, and CGL's business partners (like Wildfire) didn't get paid because CGL had no money. Then all the competent people quit as a result of either not being paid or because they were told to shut up and ignore the facts. And all the partners like wildfire demanded their stuff and money. And people filed suits demanding their money or the company be liquidated if they couldn't pay.

Anyhow, the quality of SR products has completely crashed, with crap like War! as the leading example.

kzt, Jhaiisiin and ravensmuse, thanks for the summaries. I had already read the contents from AH's chronicle of events you linked to, and have spent the last two days reading the actual threads. But as you'll note the chronicle ends in May 2010. Does anyone know if there was a legal resolution to the June bankruptcy proceedings? Someone is cheerily updating Facebook posts every few hours (presumably Jason Hardy) and product is still shipping out the BattleStore doors. Did the whole debacle just freeze in time after May? It seems Topps relicensed the rights to CGL and all, but I'm having trouble getting any closure on the specifics. Seems like the conversation and information flow just stopped in October 2010 when Mesh said "That sounds like a nice ending. Thread closed." More specifically, it's like I feverishly read through a thick, protracted epistolary novel (or SR 4 Campaign setting exposition) only to find the ending is missing. =)

Patrick Goodman's OP seemed like an epilogue of sorts, but the actual climactic final chapters are missing. If there was no ending, I get it. But if there was, would love to find the final chapters and what happened to the Colemans (if anything). =)

Furluge's prediction seems to have come true (I know it was true for myself until readying all this): "Catalyst is going to keep making Shadowrun with all the same old people in charge, they're going to do everything you hate, and 90% of gamers will like it and won't even have realized any dispute happened in the first place."

[ravensmuse]

The problem is...none of us really know. We knew about the relicensing (though I want to say it's only a temporary, short-term license? Someone with a better memory / link feel free to back me up on this) and Catalyst continues to produce content.

The information well dried up when the last of the freelancers that told CGL to take a flying leap left. Since then, it's been quiet as a tomb. And honestly, that's just how it works out; you're no longer an insider when you're actually, y'know, outside the structure. As far as everything looks from out here, they've decently gotten back on their feet.

As you saw in Patrick's thread, several people from this forum have joined the CGL freelance pool and have stated that part of their intent is to re-align the stars, so to speak, and start making great product again. I will note, despite the link in my sig, that that actually interests me products-wise. I'm still leery about buying anything from them just yet - none of the books they've put out are of interest to me - but I'm still moved somewhat from my position last year.

[Jhaiisiin]

Everything here is "To my knowledge" meaning that my information could be inaccurate, outdated or hearsay. That said, this is the Epilogue to the debacle as I understand it:

• The Colemans as well as Randall Bills all retained their jobs within CGL, with the blessing of many in the industry and despite outcry from many on Dumpshock.
• No legal action was pursued against CGL for the misuse of funds and apparent violation of contracts.
• Several seasoned freelancers left CGL for varied reasons.
• All contracts with CGL were eventually paid in full, and the freelancers seem to be getting paid in a reasonable time frame now.
• The general quality of products wavered, and has arguably improved of late
• The general feeling and posting on Dumpshock progressed towards the negative. So much so that several users left or were banned, CGL developers all but abandoned this forum, and the Shadowrun4 Official Forums were created so that the developers could have a place to talk SR without being constantly attacked.

That pretty much covers it, I think. Hopefully any inaccuracies will be cleared up by others.

[Sengir]

[*]The Colemans as well as Randall Bills all retained their jobs within CGL, with the blessing of many in the industry and despite outcry from many on Dumpshock.

AFAIK IMR Productions is jointly owned by the Colemans and Bills, so they can't be fired in the traditional sense (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[JM Hardy]

Everything here is "To my knowledge" meaning that my information could be inaccurate, outdated or hearsay. That said, this is the Epilogue to the debacle as I understand it:

• The Colemans as well as Randall Bills all retained their jobs within CGL, with the blessing of many in the industry and despite outcry from many on Dumpshock.
• No legal action was pursued against CGL for the misuse of funds and apparent violation of contracts.
• Several seasoned freelancers left CGL for varied reasons.
• All contracts with CGL were eventually paid in full, and the freelancers seem to be getting paid in a reasonable time frame now.
• The general quality of products wavered, and has arguably improved of late
• The general feeling and posting on Dumpshock progressed towards the negative. So much so that several users left or were banned, CGL developers all but abandoned this forum, and the Shadowrun4 Official Forums were created so that the developers could have a place to talk SR without being constantly attacked.

That pretty much covers it, I think. Hopefully any inaccuracies will be cleared up by others.

In general that seems like a reasonable summary of events, so thanks for putting it together (I'm sure there could be arguments about product quality, but those are arguments I'm generally not interested in having, as people can have their opinions without having to have me try to talk them out of them). Let me just comment on that last bullet point. I'd wanted forums attached to the Shadowrun4.com website for a long time, just because it's nice to have forums that are easy to find for newcomers. It was not a direct reaction to anything happening on Dumpshock. And second, I participate on those forums about the same amount as I do here, which is to say rarely. Time just doesn't allow it.

Jason H.

[CanRay]

Much as I (and others here) wondered about the thought of having a "In-House" Forums being full of "Fanboys and newbs", it is filled with a lot of folks from here as well, and there have been outcries about quality there almost as bad as here. (The mods are a bit heavier on the locking and banhammers about the ToS there than here, but that's what Mods and ToS is for so I am not complaining about that.).

I do have to admit that it is easier for new people to find, including fellows that found the X-Box 360 game ("Boo!", yes, I know) and found out that it's something far different and have stayed on, whereas, well... Let's face it, we're not that friendly to people who don't do research here, now, are we? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Another advantage that some (OK, one or two) older members on DS have found that they like about the SR4 Forums is, ironically, the ability to use image tags.

The two forums do have a very different feel, I will fully admit, but both are, I feel, equally important to Shadowrun to get the feeling down right. SR4 Forums are closer to JackPoint, while DS is closer to ShadowLand. Which, considering their ages, is very appropriate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Paul]

I keep forgetting there is even an official SR4 forum. Is it moderated like this place?

[KarmaInferno]

In some ways the forum split mirrors the setting.

You have the shiny happy side and the dark seedy underbelly.

I'll let you judge which is which.



-k

[CanRay]

I keep forgetting there is even an official SR4 forum. Is it moderated like this place?

A bit more moderated.

In some ways the forum split mirrors the setting.

You have the shiny happy side and the dark seedy underbelly.

I'll let you judge which is which.

-k

Ironically, both.

[Paul]

Ah okay. This place is way too heavily moderated for my tastes, so I'll definitely pass on them.

[Jhaiisiin]

Wow, you must have led an awesome forum life prior to this, to think that DS is "way too heavily moderated." All my past experiences show that this forum is actually rather freeform, so long as you stay away from Real Life Politics and Religion.

Hell, the only time mods even step in is when people are getting into a flamewar and nothing productive is happening. I rather approve of that. If it's not productive, why allow it to continue? People want to yell at each other? That's what PM's are for.

[Paul]

See for yourself. Please don't misinterpret my post as criticism of the DSF moderation team. (I know several of them, even game with some of them.) I just have my personal preferences. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Paul]

I'd think it's obvious why Shadowrun, in part, appeals to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Warlordtheft]

Ah okay. This place is way too heavily moderated for my tastes, so I'll definitely pass on them.

DS, heavily moderated? Or did you forget the sarcasm tags? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Paul]

I don't want to drag the thread off topic too far, but yeah I was serious. At any rate I am just happy to see my game is in good health.

[Jhaiisiin]

It would seem he's used to no-holds-barred say anything forums, nearest I can figure. *shrug* Not my cup of tea, but then it doesn't need to be. Variety is the spice of life, after all.

[Patrick Goodman]

At any rate I am just happy to see my game is in good health.

We're trying. I know some folks out there don't believe me when I say this, but we're trying.

[Paul]

And that's cool. I'm not looking to sell anyone on anything.

[CanRay]

And that's cool. I'm not looking to sell anyone on anything.

I am. I run demos.

[ggodo]

Gotta find a group somehow, eh?

[ggodo]

Hmm. .. somehow double posted. Ah well, better more than less.

[CanRay]

Gotta find a group somehow, eh?

That's the thought.

[Ancient History]

Don't know that there's much left to add on my part. I pretty much broke the last of my ties with the freelancers that chose to stick it out with CGL after a bit of regrettable business on the official forums, and I took the Files down because they were falling out of date and I refuse to buy the latest product to keep up them up to date. Jason and I continue to have our differences of opinion, but of course we don't talk anymore and that's probably for the best to all concerned. Overall it was a regrettable affair, but pretty much everyone involved has moved on. Thanks for reading, hope you had fun.

Neither here nor there, I still have a writing blog that updates Fridays: http://the-unpublishable.com

[stevebugge]

Wow, you must have led an awesome forum life prior to this, to think that DS is "way too heavily moderated." All my past experiences show that this forum is actually rather freeform, so long as you stay away from Real Life Politics and Religion.

And by stay away we really mean don't blatantly troll for or against specific religions or candidates or parties.

[CanRay]

And by stay away we really mean don't blatantly troll for or against specific religions or candidates or parties.

But making fun of Canadians is apparently OK. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)