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[Paul]

So how much use do street gangs see in your game? Which gangs do you use?

[Christian Lafay]

We hired all the ones we could get our hands on when we attacked the Renraku Arc. Completed our job and got most of the gang problem wiped out.

[CanRay]

I constantly use gangs as opponents, sources of information, and other items.

However, due to my wonky brain, the only ones I remember continually are the Halloweeners (Which the group will never hire to cause a distraction again), the Spikes, and the Ancients (Who one member of the group made the mistake of drinking "Tea" with and woke up with no memory of hours and feeling violated.).

[stevebugge]

When I GM Gangs appear almost anyway I need them too. I find that the Canon gangs are often a bit too over the top for my liking and tend to replace them with more believable gangs, though sometimes I keep the names and demographic info.

[Paul]

Because I work in a gang unit-a sort of an over simplification of what we do, but hey it works-I like to blend real world gangs with the Canon stuff, and all of my gang encounters are way less rage against the machine and way more these are a band of criminal predators. But there are some gangs in my game that are neoanarchist in their style and theme. They're just rare and careful with whom they deal with.

[stevebugge]

Because I work in a gang unit-a sort of an over simplification of what we do, but hey it works-I like to blend real world gangs with the Canon stuff, and all of my gang encounters are way less rage against the machine and way more these are a band of criminal predators. But there are some gangs in my game that are neoanarchist in their style and theme. They're just rare and careful with whom they deal with.

Yeah I try to go that way too, the gangs of Canon SR have some good shock value occasionally, but I do prefer my gangs to act more like the less organized crime syndicates they actually are and ruthlessly work to protect their all cash "business" from rivals and competitors.

Think of it this way, the Corps go to pretty extreme lengths to protect business that probably has a net margin in the 3.5% to 10% range, Gangs are working with product that because of it's forbidden nature has a margin in the 80%-90% range.

[Inu]

I use several of 'em, because I'm currently running a gang game. The main antagonists are made up, but Crimson Crush, 405 Hellhounds and Iron Crosses are all key to the setting. Rusted Stilettos, the Halloweeners and the Ancients also feature, but not as strongly. Tamanous hasn't appeared yet, but certain of the gangs use them for body disposal when they need to.

[Daddy's Litt...]

Gangs are mainly muscle and a minor threat in our games. They tend to be the sort of thing that can be treated with for info or to create a disturbance or to send a message to us. We have used a few but the most common gang I seem to remember are the Halloweeners, but that has to do with Snow Fox' love of the macabre.

[Murrdox]

I love gangs, and I tend to use them on the periphery of the missions that I design. I've used a bunch of them.

I used the Halloweeners (When you need an over-the-top gang, these are the guys you use) as a really quick "Get in and Get out" mission. A rising star in the Halloweeners was emboldening them to move in on some Triad turf. The Triads weren't in a very good position to start a full-blown street war, but they wanted to hold on to their turf. They hired the Shadowrunners to eliminate the rising Halloweener lieutenant to put them back in their place and give them some breathing room.

I used one of the Chinese Triads as allies for the Wuxing corp. A Wuxing executive was the subject of a VERY long Shadowrun campaign I had going on which involved Metaplanar magical experiments, kidnapping Shaman, and a monthlong flood of Seattle. The Shadowrunners were dealing with the Triads who were acting as hired muscle and as prison guards and couriers for the kidnapped Shamans.

I had a brief mission where the Shadowrunners were hired to make a show of force and prevent a huge cargo vessel that Wuxing had coming into the docks. The Vory V Zakone owned the docks, and it was strongly hinted to the Shadowrunners that in addition to taking care of the cargo vessel, they'd need to get the "OK" for the operation from the Vory. The players chose to ignore this warning. A few days after they sank the ship, they tried to sell some weapons that they'd stolen from the cargo hold. Guess who showed up to bust-up the weapons sale with their contact? The players had to pay a hefty "fine" to the Vory for disrespecting their territory.

Hmmm I guess you could say I use organized crime more than gangs? But I sort of look at them the same way.

[Paul]

I definitely have a clear line between the effectiveness of gangs and OC. Gangs are dangerous, and you see them everywhere. They rob, cheat, rape and murder. Organized Crime intimidates them.

[CanRay]

Organized Crime is just that: Organized. Yes, there'll be times they'll throw everyone for a loop on tactics or strategy, but that's everyone.

Gangs are Chaotic. The only thing you can predict about them is that they're *NOT* going to be tactical. They're going to be everything BUT.

[Paul]

Heh, in real life Gangs vary in their organizational levels. Some like the Bloods and a lot of Aryan gangs suffer from a lot of infighting and various competing sets vying for control. Others like the Nation of Islam and Mulanics are intensely organized. Hell the Gangster Disciples are a world wide organization. (Obviously these sorts of things vary regionally.) I tend to think of gangs as being tiered just like the corporations in Shadowrun. The further down the totem pole you get the more grabasstic they'll get.

[stevebugge]

I definitely have a clear line between the effectiveness of gangs and OC. Gangs are dangerous, and you see them everywhere. They rob, cheat, rape and murder. Organized Crime intimidates them.

The line can get pretty blurry though between large established gangs and more traditionally recognized organized crime syndicates. The Hells Angel's motorcycle club/gang is a good example of a real world organization with a foot in each camp. It's international in scope, it's technically savvy, involved in a lot of different vices. Their organization isn't quite as formal as say the Yakuza and they don't have the same level of resources and certainly aren't in as much white collar crime, but the Hell's Angels are a big step up from a neighborhood gang who get together for protection from the gang from t10 blocks down the road.

[CanRay]

And then you get the varying degrees you can see in MCs. Where some are almost Militaristic (Which is the origin of Motorcycle Clubs) all the way to rabble. With legitimate and honest civilians in there as well. (The Captain at the Salvation Army I went to was an old biker. As well as my Stepfather for many years. Neither of which were Outlaws or 1%ers.).

[stevebugge]

And then you get the varying degrees you can see in MCs. Where some are almost Militaristic (Which is the origin of Motorcycle Clubs) all the way to rabble. With legitimate and honest civilians in there as well. (The Captain at the Salvation Army I went to was an old biker. As well as my Stepfather for many years. Neither of which were Outlaws or 1%ers.).

That's actually another thing that organized crime frequently has going, not all of it's operations are actually criminal or illegal, of course gangs can also have plenty of members who are less hardcore who don't engage in serious crimes too.

The criminal element within a legitimate subculture is pretty much a hallmark of Motorcycle clubs though.

[Critias]

Gangs are Chaotic. The only thing you can predict about them is that they're *NOT* going to be tactical. They're going to be everything BUT.

That depends on the gang. The way some of them have been described, they can surprise you sometimes. The bigger the gang, the more organized they need to be (simply to stay afloat), the more "tactical" and efficient you can expect them to be.

[stevebugge]

That depends on the gang. The way some of them have been described, they can surprise you sometimes. The bigger the gang, the more organized they need to be (simply to stay afloat), the more "tactical" and efficient you can expect them to be.

There is getting to be an increasing real world problem with Gang Members doing a tour in the military (combination of relaxed standards and some misguided social rehabilitation initiative) then coming back out and applying their training on the street.

By 2070 the Ghost Dance War is 55 years in the past but the number of brush-fire wars around the world has been steady so the opportunity to enlist and get some training certainly hasn't gone away and likely neither has the practice. Besides in 2070 you don't even need to enlist anymore, score enough cred get skillwires and upload the tactical skills.

[Inu]

The point of former servicepeople in gangs is a good one. In my game, there are near-constant border skirmishes between UCAS and the Sioux Nation, and I have a character from that coast (he wasn't on the UCAS side). There's also an NPC who served with General Colloton when taking back the Arcology -- that left some significant emotional scars.

[Inu]

As for the organisation of gangs, ones like the Halloweeners are just pure chaos. Most gangs that have turf need to be more disciplined. That discipline is handed out in a very medieval way (beatings, exile or death), but it's necessary. Gangs that need to be seen as protecting their turf need good relations, and those who need people to be scared of them need them to be safe when they do the right thing (like paying their protection money). Those with ties to corporations or organised crime need to make sure that their patrons' businesses don't get hit. A gang with no discipline is either scary powerful or gets squished when they piss off the wrong people.

The other thing you need the discpline for is money -- as Vice points out, one of the most important people in any gang is the accountant. Cash flow is as vital to a gang as it is to a megacorp. If someone's skimming off the take, they need to know about it and shut it down. Their income isn't usually big enough to allow for much leeway in this -- they can't be lax when it comes to accounting.

[Midas]

I use a lot of generic street gangs in my game. Sometimes they can be an annoyance to the PCs, asking for a "parking fee" when they roll up to their target. Sometimes they are just there for atmosphere kicking the shit out of somebody as the PCs roll by. Sometimes they are the bad guys, especially in early runs. Hell, one of my PCs even pays his street gang a protection stipend so they will give him the heads up should some corp swat team roll up or someone come around asking too many questions.

Most gangs in my game world are involved in petty crime in their 'hood, from protection rackets to distributing BTLs and drugs to running shady gambling rings etc. Most of the local gangs will have links with organized crime - the gang will get guns, booze, illegal goods and if needed support from the criminal organization they are associated with in return for a percentage of the action. The criminal organization gets to shift their illicit goods without doing the donkey work themselves, and gain a cushion between them and the cops should the latter come in to try and clean up the local neigbourhood.

[kzt]

The line can get pretty blurry though between large established gangs and more traditionally recognized organized crime syndicates. The Hells Angel's motorcycle club/gang is a good example of a real world organization with a foot in each camp. It's international in scope, it's technically savvy, involved in a lot of different vices. Their organization isn't quite as formal as say the Yakuza and they don't have the same level of resources and certainly aren't in as much white collar crime, but the Hell's Angels are a big step up from a neighborhood gang who get together for protection from the gang from t10 blocks down the road.

Yup. You are a lot more likely to end up dead screwing with the Hell's Angels/Mongols/Banditos etc than the Gangster Disciples/Crips etc. The Crips or GDs might well kill you if you are there or are around them bothering them, but the Angels will travel a long way and hunt you down across the country, then roll in at 3am and kill everyone in the house. It's a whole other level of bad guy.

[Bull]

I love the gangs, and especially love the crazy, over the top theme gangs.

The Skraacha are getting a lot of love in Missions, since we're dealing heavily with the Ork underground, and I've grown quite fond of them.

the Spikes, the Ancients, the Rusted Stilletos, the Cutters, and the Halloweeners all are favs of mine, especially in Seattle.

And I have a great fondness for the Scatterbrains and the Steppenwulves. the Scatterbrains are great for Joker style rampages. And the Steppenwulves let my inner munchkin come out to play. "Chainsaw arms? Why not??"

hrmm, that reminds me... I need to see about reintroducing the Wulves into Missions at some point... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Oh, and while they're technically not a gang, the Policlubs. Specifically Humanis and Alamos 20K.

Bull

[Seriously Mike]

Heh, in the campaign I'm working on, I have three different Triads, three Mafia families, The Ancients, LAA, the frickin' Mongols and two smaller gangs ripped off from APB (the MMO version). That and the A-Kidz, but A-Kidz are sellouts and it just so happens that one beautiful, vain and completely psychopathic elf knows what's gonna sell better on P2 than the A-Kidz. Namely, the footage of A-Kidz getting brutally butchered by the new cool kids in town (with a little help from my players).

OK, if you're interested in the details:
The Red Lion Triad, or the Hong Shi, run human trafficking routes from Southeast Asia to LA. They also own The Travel Agency in SFV (the one from CorpEnc) and sling BTLs. They either deal with or shake down independent producers for footage.
Wo Shing Wo don't have much presence in LA, but they have considerable magical firepower. They mostly deal in telesma and antiquities.
14K's main field of work is gambling and drugs. Since they're the biggest, Mountain Master Wing considers himself the boss of all the Triads in LA. The others aren't really comfortable with that, but they're not in a position to change it. Yet.
The G-Kingz are small outfit comprised mostly of anti-corporate thugs and metahuman activists, mostly interested in rioting, hooding and otherwise fighting "the man". They're bankrolled by a garbage disposal/recycling company owner, an ork named Arlon Benjamin.
The Blood Roses are rich kids with a taste for violence. Two most important things about them: they're pretty big on P2 and they're independent. They're headed by a Korean-American human, Seung, and his girlfriend, Caucasian elf Charlotte. They act like a big screwed-up family (in the words of their hacker Byron: "Welcome to the Blood Roses, a soap opera based on the life of the Borgias."), they have their own club and they're financed by an estate developer Michael Simeone. What nobody knows is that Simeone is a former pentito who broke off from the Witness Protection program, changed his face again and got himself a new ID.

[Paul]

Yup. You are a lot more likely to end up dead screwing with the Hell's Angels/Mongols/Banditos etc than the Gangster Disciples/Crips etc. The Crips or GDs might well kill you if you are there or are around them bothering them, but the Angels will travel a long way and hunt you down across the country, then roll in at 3am and kill everyone in the house. It's a whole other level of bad guy.

Again this depends on the set, and sometimes the locale. Front some GD's off in Chicago and see what happens. A lot of these organizations vary widely from locale to locale-for instance locally there's little Hell's Angels presence, the Highwaymen are our homegrown version. The GD's have a membership level and financial capability that easily matches the Hell's Angels.

A smaller regional gang-The Mulanics are on several FBI watch lists because they tried to fire bomb downtown Chicago in the early 90's, and have potential connections to Arabic terrorist organizations. hell the Gangster Disciples knocked off an Illinois National Guard Armory. This isn't meant to say the Hell's Angels aren't a dangerous gang-clearly they are. But there's way more competition now a days than there was out there for them. Latin gangs like MS13 are scary sons of bitches-but in my region their presence is currently limited.

But yeah I wouldn't dismiss any of these players. Especially if you're on their home turf.

[nezumi]

Gangs are the de facto local government and dominant commercial force in large sectors of the sprawl. Yeah, they come up a lot. Most recent was "Asid Burn" who were shuttling some pretty funky BTLs and pissing off the local mafia-supported gang.