Pimped Beginning characters, And the players addicted to them.... Options

[Joker9125]

Man its been awhile since ive posted here but here goes. In our group we have a certain player who is addicted to pimped characters. His idea of a balanced character is a cyber troll with a 20 body 15 stregnth and a quickness of 10, An aspected sorrcer adept with a force 4 power focus and 4 level 6 combat spells, and a elven cyber guy that goes on a 4d6 with a reaction of 22. To my knowledge this player has never made a character that had all attributes under 10. If he does make a character with some attridutes under 10 he always has one or 2 attributes in the 13 to 17 range. HELP!!!!! We have gotten to the point of outright refusing to let him play with these demi god characters. We literally have to sit down with him and help him make a semi balanced chatacter, but i feel that this only temporalary fixes the problem. Does anyone have any tips to help him break his addiction. All the other players make characters that can function outside of combat fairly well and are fairly easy to challange in a fun way in combat. But when this guy brings in his characters he kills everyone before the other chacters can even draw a sword and then hides behind the rest in out of combat social situations. Im sure all of us have at least one of these in our groups. Any suggestions?

[Nikoli]

Lone Star sweeps of his apartment building. They knock on his door, he freaks, he gets handed a new blank sheet.

[Joker9125]

Tried simillar stuff. Bad things happen to his characters while the other less godlike characters seem to have less "bad luck" when we do stuff like this he seems to think that the answer is a more pimped chaacter even after we tell him these things happen because his characters are to pimped.

[Nikoli]

Heart attacks are a biotch, they seem to strike anyone at anytime :evil:

[Nikoli]

Better yet, next campaign you start, GM makes all characters, period. You pull your character out of a hat. You only kno the obvious flaws, etc.

[RedmondLarry]

I don't know how to get all attributes at 10+ in a starting character. Is he cheating?

In our campaign we'd try to let a complete combat-monster fit into the team. They are always useful to have around, sorta like carrying an umbrella in case it rains.

Obviously he is violating some unspoken concept that the GM and other players have. If you can find a way to describe that concept and get agreement on the concept, then he can work to make characters that fit within the new guidelines.

Many GMs have a concept for their campaigns, and work with the players to build characters within that concept. Obviously this player isn't trying to do that.

Many players go through a period of trying to make the most combat-intensive character they can. Nothing wrong with that. They will play with highest-initiative (my favorite), or highest-body (my son's favorite), or highest-charisma/social (the best actor in my campaign), or experiment with a variety of best-at characters (the best new GM in my campaign).

Perhaps suggest that he make the most social character he can design and see what he comes up with. Suggest he run the best technician he can for a few weeks.

P.S. The phrase "pimped character" is used to describe one that is severely weak in important ways, not one that is super-strong. For example, my character with priority A in magic that didn't yet know he was a magician. "His" plan was to get stronger by getting more cyberware, and in game I expected him to learn he had an aptitude for magic.

[Tom Collins]

Have the group run into someone who is bigger and badder than he is. Since he is the obvious threat, have the baddie drop him first, and the rest of the group can then run away. scratch one munchkin.

Another way of doing this (and that isn't so cheap) is to put him in a situation where all his combat skills and weapons dont help him a whole lot. Example, I had a troll that wanted to kill everything he fought with a assualt canon (I think, it's been a while, but it was some sort of big heavy weapon). The group ended up in a car chase where they are tailing a van. The troll tried to lean out the passenger side windo to shoot the van. of course, he had some trouble getting his weapon out the window and then aiming, but hey, he was the big bad troll. To bad the back doors of the van opened up revealing a mounted MG which proceeded to hoe down their vehicle. The rest of the charecters at least had the vehicle between them and the incoming fire (they were smart enough to slouch/duck when they saw the gun). The troll, on the other hand, didn't have the same luck and took several rounds to the head ("What, your not wearing any type of head protection? ok then, it'll be 15 deadly. *dice rolled* Dang, almost got a success there. Here's your new character sheet.")

Basically, it's like playing whack-a-munchkin. Munchkin comes up, munchkin goes down. If he doesn't learn, well, I guess you and the rest of the party can have fun watching him get minced week after week.

[Tom Collins]

[Moon-Hawk]

Are your campaigns typically short?
My group had this problem a lot when we tended to play short campaigns, but as we shifted to longer campaigns everyone's style of play shifted dramatically. I rarely see resources above priority C, and everyone makes a character with a well balanced set of abilities. Of course, this is all so that they can be twice as scary later on when they're filled with beta-ware, or with half a dozen initiation grades, but at least then they've earned it.

[Joker9125]

He dosent have all attributes over ten their are some that suffer a bit but not just alot. No he isnt cheating hes just good at making combat monsters while like you said everyone goes throught hat phase and gets out of it (me included) he seems to be stuck in it. The main problem is in order to challange one of his characters we have to put everyone elses characters at great risk which could easily end up in everyone dying unless the pimped character guy gets to the uber boss first and this is obviously not fun for anyone in the run except the combat monster. Secondly if we design a run that would challange the other characters he kills everyone before the end of the second initative pass. This is also not fun for anyone except him. I do however like the idea of making characters for players i think ill make a character for him on the next run i GM and make him use it if he wants to play and let him expirence a more well rounded character for once.

[Nikoli]

Magical threats have a tendency to end that sort of rubbish

[TheScamp]

[Nikoli]

There are usually no shortage of players of that type waiting with baited breath at the gaming shops for more like them to join their ranks. Like you said, most folks go through that stage at some point in their gaming carreers. It takes time to realise that the little guy can be more fun to play than the hulking mass of death

[Joker9125]

yes he knows his character suck the fun out of runs. i want to say thanks to everyone for the imput. youve all given me some interesting ideas.

[Firewall]

Give them a situation where they don't get paid if anyone catches them. After spending the entire session in the runnermobile listening to Maria Mercurial because the other players won't let him come with them, he might start to get ideas.

Then make him pay twice as much for his gear because he lacks the social skills to get a good price. I take it he is cybered up to the eye-balls, how about the electromagnet trap; big electromagnet in the ceiling, GM rules that cyberware in his campaign contains ferrous metals, troll gets a flying lesson...

Also, what is he skimping on to afford combat monsters? The most direct answer (though the one I hate to do) is to play up the strengths of the other characters, keep putting the team in situations where brute force is known to be ineffective and then suggest that his next character invests in some investigation or counter-security skills.

Honestly, I think that giving him a well-balanced sheet and telling him to give it a test-drive will be the best answer. Get them to use the non-combat skills...

[Nikoli]

I remember my power mad period.
Back when vision mag and smartlink worked sanely (whole nother discussion)
and had a character with a ranger x box, max str and a 7 in skill.

sure it wasn't hideable easily, but when you have an arrow launched from sniper rifle range in absolute silence, who cares?

[Rev]

Use the BECKS karma based charachter creation system (google: "BECKS shadowrun").

Powergaming is dramatically harder, and attempts to do so are not rewarded by the system nearly as much as they are in the priority or point system.

It would probably increase the skill points available to your non-power gamers by 50% and decrease the problem player's points by 50%, unless they mend thier ways.

[LaughingTiger]

This kinda needs to be handled out of game, rather than in. Mulching the pc won't tell the pc anything, except maybe he's not wanted. If he isn't, do the decent thing and tell him.

If you'd like to keep him but not his habits, figure out WHY he makes characters like this. I've found in my experience people make monster characters out of fear or a need for attention. He's either worried that his character will bite it right out of the gate OR he wants to be the biggest, baddest thing around because he feels that way he can't be ignored.

Sit down with your player and query him. Tell him what you're telling us, that his character is out of balance with your game. That he is spoiling the fun for others and that if he wants to keep playing he needs to change his style. Try to find out the reasons for his actions, and then work with him to find ways to deal with his reasons and concerns in a way that doesn't break your game. Most people are willing to change if they're given some attention. If he's not willing to change, simply ask him to leave.

Either way, you've taken steps to keep him in the game, and you've proved to your group that you're willing to work around problems in a friendly way. It's a win win situation for you.

[Beast of Revolut...]

How the heck does he do this? Are you using 125 BP?

[Large Mike]

I'm amazed no one has said it yet.

Firstly, if you just put him up against a threat him-sized, he'll just be more badassed next time, which requires a bigger threat, which prompts more badassery, ecetera ad nauseum.

So what you do, is A) Force him to talk. If *he* ends up being the one that has to get the vital piece of gear or talk his way out of the house rigged with bombs guarded by crazy people. Get your other players in on this, they'll be glad to help. GMs seem to forget they can bribe other players, or even ask them, to do their bidding, and most will, just cause it's fun that way. B) Mutate his character. Now, bear with me. But he'll start to think of them more as people and less as piles of numbers if the landlord starts demanding back-rent, or he finds out his girlfriend is pregnant, or him mother calls because he forgot her birthday, or you shoot him in the knee and he limps forevermore.

Have fun!

[Backgammon]

One way to try to cure him would be to make a campaign where everyone is under powered. A bunch of normal people, corp secretary, delivery boy, whatever, stuck in either Bug City or Renraku arcology. They all have to rely on wit and each other to survive, no Mad Killin' Skillz of any sort, with of course your opposiiton made to taylor the fact the PCs can't really kill anything, they can only run, hide, and trade favours with the occasionnal bad-ass NPC they find in order to survive.

[The White Dwarf]

Three things.

First off, you cant get your stats that high, thats almost past the caps for post character creation. Either he is a) cheating b) using the rules incorrectly or c) you are exxagerating about his character. Figure out which it is and repost with reality, so you can get some actual useful advice on that area.

Two, if he is powergaming his attributes that does a whole lot of jack against some types of situations. Melee, for instance, is virtually totally dependant on your melee skill for success. Driving is another area where skill takes all. Identify what area he hasnt powergamed and force him into that situation a lot. Make him learn that more rounded is better, and that combat isnt the be all end all of SR. Stealth missions are another good one (Johnson says "u must win without killing anyone and be undetected, or my plan will fail and u wont get paid").

Three, theres always something bigger. When Tir Ghosts packing AV rounds surprise you from magical cover and take called shots at your head using a sinper rifle from outside your visual range you die. Sooner your player learns that the better.

[Eyeless Blond]

Except don't ever, ever pull three on him unless he's severely messed up number two. And by severely, I mean CLUE file severely, like going on a killing rampage or something. Number two is the big one to emphasize here, to the tune that less than 5% of an average SR game should be combat-oriented, and almost all of that should be stealth-combat, not the knock-down, drag-out LOUD gun battles that you see in John Woo movies. Any time more than a dozen rounds are fired in less than a minute (20 Combat Turns) Lone Star and maybe the national guard should be arriving on the scene arresting everything that moves.

Another thing to keep in mind is enforcing legality codes. Remember that high-Force spells and foci, most firearms, much of the powerful ammunition, and lots of cyberware is highly illegal. Wandering around with any of that stuff just hanging out is just inviting Lone Star to hunt you down.

The point here is to emphasize the non-combat aspects of Shadowrun, not to stoop to the guy's level by pimping out the challenges and starting an arms race.

[gknoy]

[John Campbell]

If your description of these characters is accurate, it sounds like you need to start with:

1. Enforce the character generation rules.

There is no 2.