 Conflicting spells and stange situations |
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 Apr 6 2004, 06:11 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 28-July 03 Member No.: 5,133  |
It should be noted that I once helped my friends shoot down an invisible target by materializing on top of the target and shouting at my friends in the physical world to shoot me. It worked.
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Apr 6 2004, 06:15 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 28-July 03 Member No.: 5,133 |
And btw, seeing someone under invisibility from their astral aura would not tell you a darn thing about what they are carrying or wearing. I can see your aura, your aura contains none of that information. Your guns, like yourself, are covered by a spell and astrally, you'd see the spell. I would not let you see their gear while they were invisible, not unless you had a way to break the invis.
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Apr 6 2004, 06:19 AM
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#28
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Well there's a catch with that. Most times mages take improved invisibility, which is a physical spell and does not work on the astral what so ever. If they took normal invisibility they still show up to technological devices, so theres no win-win there.
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Apr 6 2004, 06:34 AM
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#29
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
There is a quote that states specifically that the impressions that spells make upon the astral plane are not opaque; they can't be used to obscure astral sight. Unfortunately I've misplaced it and don't feel like spending more than a minute looking it up. It exists though, I promise. If someone else will be kind enough to fool around with the books for a while and find it, I'll be appreciative :) |
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Apr 6 2004, 06:43 AM
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#30
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Err, no. The spell affects the minds (and recording devices) of others. It doesn't change a damn thing on the target. Their astral aura will look just like it always does, including their (albeit dull and lifeless) clothing and gear. You may not be able to read any logos, but you'll still see them. Just like you see walls, tables, chairs, etc. |
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Apr 6 2004, 06:47 AM
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#31
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
That's not correct in my interpretation of the rules, though I have come to agree that Improved Invisibility doesn't affect Astrally active characters. However, clothing and inanimate objects have no "visible" aura. Thus if they were invisible by the Mana spell an astrally active character could only see the spell aura. |
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Apr 6 2004, 06:53 AM
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#32
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
It's not an aura you're seeing. It's their presence. Material items appear on the astral plane just like they do in the material world -- they just don't have that glow living or magical things have. That's why you can't use astral perception to see through a wall.
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Apr 6 2004, 06:54 AM
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#33
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
That's an interpritation. The book calls it a one-way mirror. Meaning your actually seeing the physical plane.
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Apr 6 2004, 07:06 AM
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#34
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
<just rubs his temples>
Even a character who is completely blind on the physical plane sees exactly the same thing as any other magician does when they're using astral perception. You're not seeing both worlds at the same time -- you're seeing it from either one perspective (astral) or the other (physical), which is why you can only cast spells on one side or the other at a time. On the astral plane -- whether you're dual-natured and perceiving or whether you're projecting -- you still see things on the physical plane. They just do not glow or shimmer or have an aura of their own. Auras are not the definition of the astral plane, they're just a feature of the astral plane. Improved Invisibility and Invisibility only affect what you physically see on the physical plane. If you're using astral perception and/or otherwise looking around from the astral perspective, you're going to see the target, complete with the spell's aura and the dull, lifeless rags they have on. The spell does nothing to actually make anything invisible. Never has, never will. It only affects the physical vision of the target. Astral perception gets around it 100%, and you're not just seeing a beam of aural light floating around. Call it an interpretation if you like, but it's exactly what the text is saying. Spirits and astrally projecting mages -- complete with a total lack of physical vision -- still see walls, tables, clothing, and everything else. Just like an astrally perceiving mage does. Invisibility doesn't change that in the slightest. |
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Apr 6 2004, 07:24 AM
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#35
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Ok, that is a major departure. Astrally percieving mages absolutely see both sides at the same time. Not that I disagree with you on invisibility. :) |
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Apr 6 2004, 07:41 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 476 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Fresno, CFS: taking out one durned furriner at a time. Member No.: 5,940 |
What Zazen said :P
Cept, one's not actually seeing the Astral Plane... it's only described in terms of vision because all us mundanes just don't understand what having a psychic sense is really like. Vision is just the best metaphor for what they experience. |
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Apr 6 2004, 08:18 AM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
I agree that invisibilty, improved or not, would not affect you on the astral, and that percieving would let you see what gear the person caried.
On a related thing though, is there any way - spell, metamagic, whatever - to go astrally invisible? And no, I don't mean masking - that just makes you look mundane IRC. |
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Apr 6 2004, 08:27 AM
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#38
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Nope. The astral plane really is the Bottom Line for seeing if there's something there or not. |
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Apr 6 2004, 01:39 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 546 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Manchester, England Member No.: 1,062 |
Sure you could design an astral invisibility spell, or even a 'multi sense' invisibility spell that would cloak you from the astral and physical at the same time, however, unless you had masking to hide the aura of the spell, the spell's aura would give you away. But, if you did combine masking with such a spell, as I believe "The Unseen" do, then yes your astral presence is completely invisible to anyone but initiates who manage to pierce the masking (and obviously anyone who sees through the illusion). |
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Apr 9 2004, 05:16 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 19-March 03 From: Central IL Member No.: 4,278 |
A lot of you guys are just arguing the scenario, well guess what he is the GM and if he says SWAT does BG work then so be it. Here is how it would break down IMO...
The astrally percieving mage can see the invisible people, as the spell does not hide auras, and as per the rules can make an astral perception roll(4) to see through the spell, so he can make them out on the mundy plane as well. Next off the use of the phantasm, is sweet, great idea. So he could mark the targets with his phantasm as needed. However, for game balance you could say that there might be some "lag" to his spell. The two options would be to use net successes or force as a gauge for the offset to the +8 penalty. Here in lies some potential trouble, if you use the successes, then that changes depending on each person's resistance roll versus the spell. I say that because I always assume in the middle of action that People resist any spells that effect them, so the friendlies would still need to resist the phantasm if you go with that like I do. Also, one of the few weaknesses of the sweetness that is SR 3 is the lack of effect Force has on spells, so I always lean towards applying force for other effects. I would say reduce the TN penalty down from 8 by the force of the spell. Also tell Damien K I said hey, and never ever ever deal with a dragon. "No, we challenge " Some Dumbass challenging a F10 spirit on behalf of his whole team. |
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