 Bioware Mage - Opinions, Need your Advice on my Character |
  |
 Nov 28 2011, 05:46 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548  |
Hi everyone!
I'm trying to make a new Character and wanted to make a Mage with some Bioware Upgrades. Making him Viable in Spellcasting but also in Combat and other Skills. Our GM gives us 50'000 Nuyen + 50 Karma as startboost for our Campaign So I had a little bit more of free space with higher Stats and Skills. Concept is that my Mage mainly uses Manipulation Magic but also got a Monofilament Whip Weapon Focus 4 to battle Spirits. I tried my Best to min/max his Attributes and Skills upon what costs more BP/Karma during creating and areer phase. And yes I know, he's a total social cripple without any manners ... but I needed those points for other stuff I would love if someone could give me some good Feedback about him! If you like my Character feel free to use him for your Campaign or whatever. As long as you don't repost him somewhere without giving me some credit for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) [ Spoiler ]
|
 |
 
|
|
Nov 28 2011, 07:29 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Hey!
MinMaxed threw me off a bit. Yes, you minmaxed your added karma by only buying BP:karma 1:1 stuff. As for the rest: - your weapon focus is currently worthless on the astral plane. 8P damage is nice but available from mana bolt AND unlikely to connect without Astral Combat skill. - on the physical plane you get a very expensive close combat weapon with the ability to slice anything without exceptional close combat defense pool. Good if you don´t like the standard manabolt. - Is that magic 6(5) or magic 5(4)? (I´d prefer the latter for cost reasons, and handle it as Magic 4(3) bought up with 20 karma to Magic 4.) - Your qualities seem off: -- Genetic Heritage on a Minotaur, please explain. Besides that Restricted Gear(Cerebral Booster 3) (ressources -10k¥) on top of Logic 4 is cheaper and ends at the same pool and essence. -- Wanted + distinctive style + being a manic spellcaster... be very afraid. - Some of those karma points should buy a Magic Group. 5 Karma for a bunch of friends and cheaper Initiations. Speaking of those, Grade 2 should be the minimum with a 50 karma headstart. - I suspect the whole concept would be easier to build with karma-gen. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 28 2011, 08:06 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
thanks fot pointing some flaws out for me!
what would be a better option to fight spirits with a weapon focus? drop monowhip skill to 2 and raise astral combat to 3 instead? |
|
|
|
|
Nov 29 2011, 11:56 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
That would be better, yes. Your physical attacks would still work at dp 12 / 8P-4. You will still be in danger of counterattack from any spirit of force 5+ since you defend with Intuition+Astral Combat.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 29 2011, 12:39 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
well.seems like i cant have only the best (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
seems good.enough fot me sincr our gm rarely uses bad ass spirits |
|
|
|
|
Nov 29 2011, 06:10 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 29 2011, 01:39 PM)  well.seems like i cant have only the best (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) seems good.enough fot me sincr our gm rarely uses bad ass spirits Heh. You didn´t hope for the best when choosing a Weapon Focus requiring extra skills over a simple manabolt. So the primary goal should be "making it work". Force 5 will be about your equal in astral combat - less damage output, but better defense pool, about the same initiative. What is your reason for choosing a minotaur? Are you allowed to use karmagen? |
|
|
|
|
Nov 29 2011, 06:50 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
My reason to choose a minotaur is, because they're freaking awesome and I love to play a big angry cow/troll (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Also it gave me a bonus to Body hehe I reworked the whole thing a bit and I think I got now a more suitable Character for facing Spirits. I wanted to play a Mage that could also fight People and Spirits without the need for casting spells. I know that a manabolt would be a much more "efficient" way but I just like the idea of a monowhip swinging big angry cow for fluff reasons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) No, sadly we are not allowed to use Karmagen. Our Gm doesn't have any experience with it and all the other guys at our table used BP to create their characters. As soon as I arrive home, I will post you the newest version of my character. Hope you can give me some more quality advice! Since I'm experienced with Shadowrun but never played a min/max/optimized Mage before. So I often overlook some fine (and important) details during Character generation! Thanks a lot that you took your time to help me ! |
|
|
|
|
Nov 29 2011, 07:31 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
I'm at home now finally, so here's the "new character". The new Character has only Magic 4, but I can raise that after some SR sessions with my Team. Got any idea how to improve it? If this doesn't work out well I might be considering making a bad-ass summoner instead. But the idea of a Whip swinging mad cow still is just awesome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) [ Spoiler ]
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 08:51 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Body 7 is at this point not worth 10 BP IMO. Body 6 should be plenty. Reaction 5 is so-and-so. Not enough to fully dodge attacks, you will still act after the properly augmented group. Consider Bod 6 / Rea 3 / Edg 4. You are also making little use of the troll strength currently.
QUOTE (Actual Active Skills) Assensing : 4 Pool: 10 Astral Combat : 5 [Weapon Focus] Pool: 10 (12) Banishing : 1 Pool: 5 Binding : 1 Pool: 5 Counterspelling : 4 [Combat Spells] Pool: 8 (10) Dodge : 1 [Ranged Combat] Pool: 6 [8] Escape Artist : 1 [Mage Cuffs] Pool: 7 (9) Exotic Melee Weapon : 4 [Monofilament Whip] Pool: 10 Infiltration : 1 [Urban] Pool: 7 (9) Perception : 1 [Visual] Pool: 7 (9) Pistols : 2 [Semi-Automatics] Pool: 10 (12) Spellcasting : 5 [Manipulation Spells] Pool: 9 (11) Summoning : 1 Pool: 5 I would work on that list next. You buy two of your best skills for melee. Your other skills are suffering for that. I liked the 2+3 without specs combo better. Since Banishing is not useful, less at low ratings, get Summoning 2 (favourite type +2) instead. 6 dice for Binding is not enough anyway. Escape artist is another gimmick skill. Must you? No social skills is not a good idea. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 09:25 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
Thanks for the reply!
I didn't use the Trolls strenght, since the mono whip doesn't do any strenght based damage. Is summoning at "low level" any good? I know that a Force 8 spirit is a pain in the ass but is it viable to summon only force 3 spirits if I just could fling a manabolt or use my whip instead? Seems like my character idea is harder to do than I thought at the beginning. Well I like a good challenge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Wouldn't it be statwise better if I'd make a dwarf? I could have willpower 6, logic 5 (+3 cerebral Booster) that would give me a drain attribute of 14. And drop the Astral Combat and Monowhip for Spirits and buy a spellcasting/binding/summoning focus? That way I would fight Spirits with Spirits and could overcast summoning and spellcasting better? The thing with Edge is, our GM rarely refreshes the Edge pool and that's why almost nobody in our group has an Edge attribute higher then 2 ... which is kinda sad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 04:42 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 10:25 AM) Thanks for the reply! Forget about the monowhip weapon focus. It is expensive, needs an additional skill and is less effective than a mana/stun bolt, even against spirits. Against the weapon focus spirits or other astral roll INT+Astral Combat/Dodge to avoid it and WIL to soak, if the creature has more than 4 points of astral armor this is even added. Against the Spell they get to roll WIL. Period. 8S base damage is doable at MAG 4. So its the same damage but less resistance form the target.I didn't use the Trolls strenght, since the mono whip doesn't do any strenght based damage. Is summoning at "low level" any good? I know that a Force 8 spirit is a pain in the ass but is it viable to summon only force 3 spirits if I just could fling a manabolt or use my whip instead? Spirits at Force 3 or 4 will still be helpful. They won't go through a bunch of rentacops like a hot knife through butter, but they can still be useful. QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 10:25 AM) Wouldn't it be statwise better if I'd make a dwarf? I could have willpower 6, logic 5 (+3 cerebral Booster) that would give me a drain attribute of 14. And drop the Astral Combat and Monowhip for Spirits and buy a spellcasting/binding/summoning focus? That way I would fight Spirits with Spirits and could overcast summoning and spellcasting better? Yes. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 05:13 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
Well the monofilament Whip weapon focus would have been just plain awesome as a fluff and style element, but since we have already a Sam/Tank and no other Mage in our group I think i should stick to being a full time mage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I'll work on a dwarf concept and will post it here. Since I won't try to confront people in combat directly without a meatshield I won't need those 6 body an 5 strenght. But I still wish I could play a minotaur, just love those damn angry cows (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Any tips before I start constructing my mage? Should I focus more on Spellcasting? Resisting Drain to the max? Summoning and Binding? Haven't played a mage before so I need some of that huge dumpshock knowledge you guys got stuck up in your brains (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 05:50 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 06:13 PM) Well the monofilament Whip weapon focus would have been just plain awesome as a fluff and style element, but since we have already a Sam/Tank and no other Mage in our group I think i should stick to being a full time mage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good choice. Capable mages rarely have enough points to do much else. QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 06:13 PM) Any tips before I start constructing my mage? Spells are good, Spirits are great but require more preparation. A spell is in effect after a complex action. The spirit can take action after 3 Action Phases (Summoning, Ordering, Materializing)Should I focus more on Spellcasting? Resisting Drain to the max? Summoning and Binding? Haven't played a mage before so I need some of that huge dumpshock knowledge you guys got stuck up in your brains (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'd probably go Spellcasting 5, Summoning 5, and up to four in Counterspelling and Binding. A few other tips: - Get a Power Focus at CharGen (maybe even Force 4 with restricted Gear). You will never get it that cheap again. - Mentor Spirits are cool. - Unless you want to portray someone with a broad magical education, do not take Ritual Spellcasting and Banishing at CharGen. - Look at the spells you want to cast and decide how high your drain pool needs to be. Usually softmaxing the two stats is enough, especially if you use a race that gets a bonus to one stat (Dwarf, Elf) - Stay away form indirect combat spells. - General tip: Specializations are cheaper with Karma than BP. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 06:16 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,700 Joined: 1-July 10 Member No.: 18,778 |
Take a look at the mages in my sig for some examples of how to build magicians.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 06:52 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,416 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Albuquerque Member No.: 8,334 |
One suggestion: If you were really set on playing a Minotaur, don't let people dissuade you. If you follow every suggestion on DS, you'll end up with the same, cookie-cutter character we consistently see put together here. Make it yours. During play, you're not going to miss a couple of dice here and there. Play what you *want* to play first and foremost. If you want a monowhip wielding hell-cow, play that, and make it work as well as you can.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 07:08 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 30 2011, 07:52 PM) One suggestion: If you were really set on playing a Minotaur, don't let people dissuade you. If you follow every suggestion on DS, you'll end up with the same, cookie-cutter character we consistently see put together here. Make it yours. During play, you're not going to miss a couple of dice here and there. Play what you *want* to play first and foremost. If you want a monowhip wielding hell-cow, play that, and make it work as well as you can. Agreed. Minotaur / Whip was specified. We build that. It is tempting to invest even more BP than necessary to build a stronger fighter, but you can´t really afford that luxury (IMO). You can make use of Strength by adding the Athletics group in place of Dodge(Ranged). Low summoning is workable since the spirit only rolls force to resist Summoning. At 8 dice you can get force 4 spirits, which can provide mobile counterspelling, the fear power, Movement 4 or Concealment 4. And even more. You will be weaker than a cookie-cutter mage, but a worthy member of many groups anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 07:38 PM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Nov 30 2011, 11:52 AM) One suggestion: If you were really set on playing a Minotaur, don't let people dissuade you. If you follow every suggestion on DS, you'll end up with the same, cookie-cutter character we consistently see put together here. Make it yours. During play, you're not going to miss a couple of dice here and there. Play what you *want* to play first and foremost. If you want a monowhip wielding hell-cow, play that, and make it work as well as you can. Agreed... Play what you Want, and mold around that. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 08:18 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
Well I made now a Dwarfen Mage. Didn't read all your comments about sticking with my hell cow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I will post him anyway! I love to play characters that are "special" and have their own kind of style and background story instead of being a mindless killing machine with maxed stats without any fluff ... But since I never made a mage before, I thought I ask you guys so that I get the most out of char while still have something special (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I think my mage now is the standard "cookie-cutter" build you were talking about hehe [ Spoiler ]
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 08:19 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
You are the mage of the team. If you establish a "Summon Force 4" balance with your GM your spirit-fighting capabilities will be quite sufficient and your samurai will not be dominated by super-spirits. Consequentially the need for min-maxing magic will be much lower. You already said that your GM is not into bad-ass spirits, so this should be easy.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 09:32 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
I would raise BOD and lower CHA. 3 bound spirits are more than enough. More BOD will mean that you can wear more armor.
I doubt many GMs will allow the specialization for Drain on First Aid. 3 Addictions??? Armor is the worst damage mitigating spell in the grimoire. It paints a huge bullseye on you. Better take Increase BOD, Combat Sense or Deflection. While a Force 5 Binding focus is nice, getting more dice on summoning is preferable to more dice on binding. Summoning is resisted by the spirit's Force, Binding by Force*2. You will get more net hits on the summoning roll than on the binding roll. Since all net hits transfer to the bound spirit it does not matter which roll generates the services. rebinding is a poor option compared to releasing the spirit and summoning a new one. A high Power focus is dreadfully expensive, but, in addition to aiding you in Summoning and Binding, it also aids you in Spellcasting, Ritual spellcasting and dispelling sustained spells. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 10:21 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 1-October 11 Member No.: 39,548 |
Yeah the 3 Addictions are placeholders for the -35bp (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I thought that a Powerfocus doesn't help you with summoning and binding. At least that's what i've read in the rulebook (sorry if I'm wrong) Anyone got experience with ally spirits? Since i got 50 free karma at charcreation after spending all the BP, I could have an ally spirit. Would be almost cooler then a monowhip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 11:05 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 11:21 PM) I thought that a Powerfocus doesn't help you with summoning and binding. At least that's what i've read in the rulebook (sorry if I'm wrong) A Power focus helps every time you roll MAG. For Summoning and Bindung, you roll MAG+Summoning/Binding.QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 11:21 PM) Anyone got experience with ally spirits? Since i got 50 free karma at charcreation after spending all the BP, I could have an ally spirit. Would be almost cooler then a monowhip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Huge pointsink. You'd want at least Force 4. That's 32 Karma already. Not to mention the cost for initiating.
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 30 2011, 11:26 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,782 Joined: 28-August 09 Member No.: 17,566 |
QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Nov 30 2011, 03:21 PM) Yeah the 3 Addictions are placeholders for the -35bp (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought that a Powerfocus doesn't help you with summoning and binding. At least that's what i've read in the rulebook (sorry if I'm wrong) Anyone got experience with ally spirits? Since i got 50 free karma at charcreation after spending all the BP, I could have an ally spirit. Would be almost cooler then a monowhip (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Powerfocus helps with everything your roll Magic. on. Everything. What do you roll for summoning? MAGIC + summoning. What do you roll for binding? MAGIC + binding. what do you roll to roll spellcasting? MAGIC + spellcasting. It doesn't help with Spell defense, because you do not roll magic+counterspelling for that, only to dispel active spells. Ally spirits, however, are kind of awesome. There is, in fact, an initiatory ordeal made specifically for them, and its special because it lets you take the metamagic for that initiation, instead of requiring you have it ahead of time. It would cost you 11 karma to initiate, take the familiar ordeal, leaving you with 39 to spend elsewhere. That is enough for a force 6 spirit(30 karma), which might actaully be pretty awesome. It might be a better idea to sign up for an initiatory group as well, which will set you up for a discount in all your further initiations. With an Ordeal, this would cost 14 points in total. (5 for the group, and 8 for the discounted initiation). If you do this, you will almost certainly want to take your initiatory group as a group contact with BP, in case your GM decides that at loyalty 0, they don't really care to help you at all. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 1 2011, 01:08 AM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Dec 1 2011, 12:26 AM) That is enough for a force 6 spirit(30 karma), which might actaully be pretty awesome. QUOTE ('Street Magic p. 103') An ally spirit’s base cost equals 8 So it is enough for Force 4 (32 Karma).
Karma times its desired Force rating. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 1 2011, 03:33 AM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 30 2011, 06:08 PM) So it is enough for Force 4 (32 Karma). I put together a Force 3 Ally Spirit that is not too bad. Costs exactly 50 Karma. Force: 3 (24 Karma) Forms: Materialization, Tempter/Deceiver Spirit (Spirit Of Man) – (0 Karma) 1. Human Woman of Inordinate Beauty (Name to be given) Powers: (5 Karma) • Astral Form* • Banishing Resistance* (3 Services Refreshed every Sunrise and Sunset; Based upon Mage Edge at time of Creation) • Realistic Form* • Sapience* • Sense Link* • Influence* • Movement* • Search* • Weather Control Skills: (15 Karma) • Assensing 3* • Astral Combat 3* • Dodge 3* • Perception 3* • Unarmed Combat 3* • Spellcasting 3 • Ritual Spellcasting 3 • Arcana 3 Spells: (6 Karma) • Control Emotions • Enabler Is not all that bad. Goes to 53 Karma if you raise the Force to 4 (the Weather Control Power is Free at that point), and All Skills become a 4, instead of 3. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th April 2024 - 01:18 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.