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#1
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 5-December 11 Member No.: 45,407 ![]() |
I can't find the time to play in person, so I've decided I'll run a game online. This seems to be a fairly lively community of SR4 players, so I'm opening up the discussion here.
You: reply with a brief description of the character you want to play. Do not worry about overlapping with someone else at this point, as I expect we'll have enough volunteers to allow me to pick a crew that covers the bases. Include enough info so that I can get a feel for the sort of game you're after as well. Me: I wait until I've got a few folks on the line, ask probing questions, and eventually pick out a team of 4-6 runners. It will not be a case of first come, first served. We: discuss how the team came together, what relationships will be in place prior to the start of the game, and get down to actual numbers. Oh, and come up with a name for the game, based on what everyone wants to do with their alter egos. I will say that I'm likely to use some alternative rules, but they're ones I've seen in common use in other threads, for the most part, and will post a list of them when I get home (posting this from the office, over lunch, and forgot my thumb drive with the document on it...) That shouldn't matter too terribly as we get started, however, as I don't want to see a single statistic mentioned in your descriptions. So, lay it on me. One sentence to several paragraphs - who do you want to be today? |
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#2
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,656 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 ![]() |
Tony Moran, alias "Kohai"
The concept here is a young street samurai who was being trained by a more experienced partner, possibly even a prime runner. One of the mentor's enemies finally caught up with the pair, and the mentor held him off while the student escaped. Now the enemy is hunting Kohai, too, wanting to wipe out the mentor's legacy. |
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#3
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,468 Joined: 5-December 06 From: Somewhere in the Flooding, CalFree Member No.: 10,215 ![]() |
Alias: Heater (from HTR-High Threat Responder)
Real Name: Jimmy Granger Metatype: Ork Jimmy was in the Academy before the Crash, training to be CATCo. HTR. He was middle of the class, struggling to make a name for himself, to get good marks and to get a good posting after graduation. He even sacrificed a slice of his magical potential to get ahead, spending a lot of his savings to get top of the line cybereyes, neural enhancements, and sleeker bio-muscles. His scores improved dramatically, and in turn his motivation waned. That was probably the best thing that could have happened for him, because he was running late to class on the day of the Crash. The whole class was reviewing scenarios on the Matrix that day, and when he got there, most of them were bleeding from their ears, eyes, and noses. His friends sat there in silent screams, bleeding, and he was helpless to aid them. He tried for hours to get a hold of anyone to help them, to try to help them himself. He was unable to do anything. He did the only thing he could think of, he took what he could from the Academy and ran to save himself. He grabbed a couple of foci, some armor, and guns. He took what he thought would help him survive. He found out in the weeks after that he was now SINless. At first he liked the idea of being free, surviving on his skills and what he could get paid for them. It has now become his calling, an outlet for his reckless youth and the calling on his mentor spirit, the Dark Goddess. He is now a small time runner, a combat medic and mage, still trying to make a name for himself and thriving in the small shadows he has delved into. |
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#4
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 5-December 11 Member No.: 45,407 ![]() |
Wow, I really expected more than just two of you. Maybe the holidays are getting in the way.
I'll sit tight this weekend and see where we're at on Monday. |
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#5
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,656 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 ![]() |
I hope this game gets off the ground; Kohai's been kicking around in my head for a while now, and I'd like to get the chance to play him.
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#6
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 5-December 11 Member No.: 45,407 ![]() |
I hope this game gets off the ground; Kohai's been kicking around in my head for a while now, and I'd like to get the chance to play him. Even if we only get the two of you, I'll see what I can do to make things work. I've done solo campaigns before, so a pair of players ought to be easy enough to manage. I've put together a list of some rule changes I'd like to try out. I'd like to get opinions on them as well from potential players, so tell me if any of these are deal-breakers for you: [ Spoiler ]
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#7
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,468 Joined: 5-December 06 From: Somewhere in the Flooding, CalFree Member No.: 10,215 ![]() |
Medical kits scale up in size and down in portability with rating. The rating is not used to replace first aid skill, but if the individual using the kit doesn't have first aid, they do not take the -1 for defaulting. Rating 1 is entirely portable, fitting into a pocket. R2 and 3 are small scale kits, the size of a cigar box. R4 and 5, picture a large tackle box or toolbox. R6 kits are actually on casters, and only portable in the loosest sense of the word, being the size of a small chest of drawers or a full-sized tool chest. I am okay with this one, sounds more realistic to me. QUOTE Hacking and computer based skills are Skill + Ability to determine the dice pool, with a limit to hits (not net hits) of the rating of the appropriate program. You have to know how to hack to succeed, but you have to have the right tools to do well at it. I like this too, might try it out in one of my own games. QUOTE Armor of any kind adds it's full B or I (whichever is higher) to the total comparison against encumbrance. Even form fitting body armor adds it's full value to the calculation. Compare this to 2xBODY to determine encumbrance. Then what's the point of Form Fitting Body Armor? Also, how does this effect things like helmets, shields, and PPP armor? QUOTE Stick n Shock rounds are available only for shotguns, but remain at 6S(e) damage, versus half Impact armor. Any AP that the shotgun might normally have is disregarded in favor of this halving of Impact armor. Net hits do not improve this damage like normal ammunition would. Note that while electrical damage normally would affect spirits, SnS ammo, and Tasers, do not, as they require a physical contact to transmit the electricity, as opposed to a lightning bolt. I can understand not effecting spirits, by I don't understand the shotguns only rule. There are taser darts, meant to be fired out of things smaller than your regular pistol, but this only works as a slug? I have always preferred ruling that it decreases the range increment of the weapon it is fired out of, to represent less propulsion capability as well as a little more weight in the package being delivered. QUOTE Contacts at the start of the game can not exceed a total value of Contact and Loyalty greater than 8. Contacts are a two-way street, and you may be called upon by a contact to help them for free, just as you'd expect them to help you for free in tough situations, or see the loyalty rating drop on you. Magical skills may be defaulted (rating 0, with a -1 for defaulting) for anyone who has a Magic score above 0 Every character starts with (Cha + Int) points in extra contacts for free All reasonable as well. QUOTE If you have a legitimate SIN, you may purchase a license for restricted items that you own under that name for 10% of the cost of the item, with a minimum of 50 nuyen. It will be associated with your real SIN, however and if it is found to be used in a criminal enterprise, it will lead right back to you. Fake SINs are fragile enough that any attempt to get a legal license associated with one will trigger red flags on that SIN. Can I buy FAKE Licenses to go with my Fake SIN? Also, all of the rest sounds good. Is it standard 400BP build, karmagen, or possibly (my preference), BP with a small amount of karma to play with after creation? |
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#8
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,656 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 ![]() |
Armor of any kind adds it's full B or I (whichever is higher) to the total comparison against encumbrance. Even form fitting body armor adds it's full value to the calculation. Compare this to 2xBODY to determine encumbrance. This is really the only red flag for me. Not a dealbreaker, but I second Trigger's sentiments. |
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#9
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 22-September 11 Member No.: 38,548 ![]() |
Richard Knowles (AKA Leapfrog) is a young SINless, new to the shadowrunning scene. He's a mediocre shot, has almost no use for his commlink, and is magically mundane. What he brings to the table is his athletic ability, and the gymnastic experience of someone who's spent a good portion of his life leaping from building to building to avoid KE patrols. He's furtive, quiet, and used to situations where being the one not seen is the best. Lately, he's been looking to move up in the world. Running packages for the local gangs and serving as a lookout just doesn't pay enough. Maybe if he can make the cred, he can move out of his basement apartment in the Sprawl. Maybe see what living large is all about.
Leapfrog is a short human, with curly black hair and brown eyes. His build is best described as wiry. Being too close to a concussion grenade on one of his first jobs cost him the use of his ears, which have now been replaced by cybernetics. He's bland. An average man, with an average build. Being forgettable is important when you work in the shadows. (This is my first online RP, as well as my first SR4 character. Please tell me if I do anything wrong.) |
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#10
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
Wow, I really expected more than just two of you. Maybe the holidays are getting in the way. I'll sit tight this weekend and see where we're at on Monday. I was hoping to respond to this over the weekend, but I had family in from out of town (for an early xmas) and didn't have the time. I'll try to get a few sentences together tonight. |
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#11
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 7-September 10 Member No.: 19,020 ![]() |
Ryuuji was an enforcer for the Yakuza, until one day, during a collection run, he was faced down by a gaggle of ghouls protecting the storefront. He was infected with HMHVV during the ensuing fight, which he didn't learn until he returned to the syndicate, badly beaten, but alive. He was then ejected from the Yakuza on account of being infected; after recovering from the wounds they gave him, he cut all ties and went into the shadows to start a new life for himself.
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#12
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 ![]() |
I would be interested in this game, although I am going to be gone from this coming Wednesday until the next Wednesday, with limited internet access. My ready-made characters tend to be muscle (such as Brazil, a laconic street merc, or Spazz, a flamboyant martial artist), although I have some of my old face builds that I could tweak if the group needs a negotiator.
What kind of character creation rules will you be using? I know you just want concepts, but the numbers make some concepts viable, and others problematic. |
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#13
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 5-December 11 Member No.: 45,407 ![]() |
Glad to see some more comments!
I will revisit my armor ideas. I'm not sure what to do with them, aside from the fact that I don't want every character to have full FFBA under whatever's clever - if everyone has it, it loses it's flare and style! - but I'm flexible in that regard. I'm thinking BP for builds, 400 as normal, with the addition of the bonus BP for contacts. I've got, and will be cool with, SR4A, Arsenal, Augmentation, Runner's Companion, Unwired and Street Magic. Oh, and don't worry about downtime over the holiday. I'm sure I'll have some as well as we do family things as we get closer to the 23rd. It'll be a time for shaking down the character stories, weaving them together, and getting a party put together. So please, give some details if you're interested in a game that'll really start after the holiday proper has passed. |
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#14
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,656 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 ![]() |
I will revisit my armor ideas. I'm not sure what to do with them, aside from the fact that I don't want every character to have full FFBA under whatever's clever - if everyone has it, it loses it's flare and style! - but I'm flexible in that regard. Well, surely we can just agree that FFBA isn't an everyday piece of kit. I'm perfectly fine with saving it for situations where we expect heavy combat. |
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#15
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 22-September 11 Member No.: 38,548 ![]() |
Well, surely we can just agree that FFBA isn't an everyday piece of kit. I'm perfectly fine with saving it for situations where we expect heavy combat. I only plan on having an armored jacket for a while. This character is not the sort to run around in full body armor if the situation does not demand it. |
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#16
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
I'll dust off an idea I had for a mage that I liked but never got a chance to use. I have tons more (as I'm sure most Dumpshockers do) but if I was choosing in a vacuum, this would probably be the guy I'd choose to play next:
Longer back-story available if you're interested, but here is a short description: "Vice" is the street name of an up-and-coming runner with an (unhealthy) obsession with the addictions and vices of the people around him and just enough magical talent that most Shadowrunners he's worked with can overlook his occasional lapse in judgement. His mentor spirit (the Seductress) has lured him down darker paths of magic, and by proximity into the darker Shadows of whatever sprawl we find ourselves in (Seattle?). In addition to taking on the occasional Run as magical support, he has a day-job attending to the vices of others as a "party mage" in a (morally questionable) club - where his magic is put to use for the "entertainment" others, and where he can surround himself in debauchery and sin. Whether his clients want to get drunk, high, off, or simply to keep partying well after they should have OD'd or passed out, it is his job to facilitate that and Vice has taken to that role with a passion that often rolls over into his other career (occasionally earning the annoyance or gratitude of his teammates). He is more interested in enabling the vices of others than indulging his own (although not by much), and is usually up for joining just about anyone in just about anything - as long as everyone is having a good time. |
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#17
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,468 Joined: 5-December 06 From: Somewhere in the Flooding, CalFree Member No.: 10,215 ![]() |
Hacking and computer based skills are Skill + Ability to determine the dice pool, with a limit to hits (not net hits) of the rating of the appropriate program. You have to know how to hack to succeed, but you have to have the right tools to do well at it. Just had a thought on this last night.... How does this effect being a technomancer and complex forms? It makes Threading useless as written. My thought on how to fix the problem without changing the system too much (and thus possibly unbalancing the game in unexpected ways) is to limit skill progression by the rating of the linked attribute. So, if you have Logic 4, it is costs the regular amount to raise your skill to 4, but it would cost more to raise it higher. This keeps your hacker from having Logic as his dump stat, and makes attribute placement more important, IMO. What are your thoughts? |
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#18
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
Just had a thought on this last night.... How does this effect being a technomancer and complex forms? It makes Threading useless as written. Not useless, but a lot less useful (it WOULD raise the max # of hits you could get). I was wondering the same thing, though - despite not submitting a TM. |
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#19
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
Similarly, does this rule affect programs that only use the program's rating? For example, stealth's rating still sets threshholds without using logic or hacking, right? If you rolled to intentionally hide a file I suppose you might roll logic+hacking limited by stealth, but most hackers use it passively.
TMs have a slight advantage in that their program ratings can start higher than 4, but unless they are chucking more than 12 dice (hard with a TM, but not impossible) they're unlikely to notice or appreciate it. |
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#20
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 5-December 11 Member No.: 45,407 ![]() |
If everyone's going to be cool, we may not need any house rules at all. Admit it (I will) - most house rules are a direct response to power-gaming and brutal, blatant min-maxing of characters. If we're all agreed that we'll play characters who are interesting first, and only badass as a result of how interesting they are, many of my concerns would go out the window.
You're right that my hacking changes are to prevent a Logic 1 hacker from still kicking ass. I could get behind the idea that hacking skills can not exceed the related attribute. Are there other areas I've not considered where the associated attribute isn't useful, like hacking skills? Blackhat, would you be considering taking a huge number of mental command spells? I've been toying with another idea I saw, of assigning added Notoriety to a wizard who relies heavily on such spells - what do you think about that? |
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#21
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 ![]() |
I admit, that I tend to play hackers with logics of 7/8 when ever I can. Mostly because I play my hackers as information brokers, and programmers. Programming is Logic+ Programming, and knowledge skills tend to be logic+skill.
programming, hardware, mechanic skills are all logic+skill. The logic 1 hacker is a script kiddy, who can't create custom programs, and can't do any customization work on his own rig. He has to hire other people to do it. People you hire can be compromised in all sorts of horrible ways. Do you really want your life literally depending on your loyalty 2 contact from not screwing you when he installed the hotsim override? |
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#22
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
Blackhat, would you be considering taking a huge number of mental command spells? I've been toying with another idea I saw, of assigning added Notoriety to a wizard who relies heavily on such spells - what do you think about that? I wasn't planning to use them. My preliminary spell list (which I might tweek a bit before all is said and done) looks like this (spoiler'd just to limit size of post): [ Spoiler ] So mostly health spells, with only one mental manipulation (and no direct mind-control). I wouldn't mind such a rule, though, if you insisted. I would point out a couple of things, though: 1. Mental manipulation spells are not the only thing mages can do that could deserve a bad reputation. While it makes sense that average Joe Citizen should (rightfully) fear mages (particularly unlicensed criminal mages), because he has almost no way to protect himself or stop them from doing whatever they want, that should probably be handled more as a prejudice or paranoia on his part than as a bad reputation on the part of the wizard, just because he uses one subset of magic. There are a million other aspects to being awakened that are just as unfair to the unawakened that singling out mental manipulation spells is probably just the tip of the iceberg. For example, almost all mages can summon spirits that can instantly go anywhere in the world and invisibly spy on you. If you don't have some magical protection, Shadowrun is a very scarey place to live. Really, it seems like any "misuse of magic" could be considered worthy of a bad reputation - as far as the masses are concerned. 2. Notority is typically your *professional* reputation in the Shadows, and not so much your public reputation among the masses. As long as you're not messing with the minds of your teammates or the Johnson (and casting unwanted spells on them is never professional behavior) then I'm not sure it should be considered "unprofessional" to use them to get the job done as long as they are used with care. Killing people is bad form, so using mental manipulations to avoid having to kill them seems fine as long as you don't go overboard and force them to do horrible things to themselves or one another. It is probably to the teams benefit to have a mage who can control the minds of those around them and, frankly, it makes things a lot safer for the poor rent-a-cops who are otherwise in the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Also, for a run where you need to get information out of someone, a mental manipulation spell is awesome, and for a lot of situations, those spells are the most efficient way to get the job done without causing any collateral damage... it just isn't fun for the poor bastard who has to do what you say for a few seconds. From a "personal" standpoint, I can see why you might dislike someone who shows a disregard for the personal space of others (not to mention breaking laws by doing so), but from a "professional" standpoint... that is what Runners are for... to break the law in order to accomplish the mission with as little muss and fuss as possible. 3. I fully acknowledge that mental manipulations make things tricky for a GM - but that's a separate issue and shouldn't have anything to do with Notority. |
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#23
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
Also, everything I said about the world being scarey and unfair for people who have no magical defenses is equally true of those same people who have no cyber-defenses to stop a hacker from spying on them, stealing their information or identities, and so on. A hacker who runs around being a jackass hacking into your stuff and using your information against you is probably just as worthy of your dislike as a mage who is a jackass.
Notority is fine if you're being a jackass to your team or the people who hired you (whether you're a mage, a hacker, or anything else, really), or if you're jeopardizing the job by going nuts with it, or being unnecessarily sadistic. In that case, though, its the sadism that is worth the notority, not the special skills you're using to do it. |
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#24
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,486 Joined: 17-March 05 From: Michigan Member No.: 7,180 ![]() |
If everyone's going to be cool, we may not need any house rules at all. Admit it (I will) - most house rules are a direct response to power-gaming and brutal, blatant min-maxing of characters. If we're all agreed that we'll play characters who are interesting first, and only badass as a result of how interesting they are, many of my concerns would go out the window. Hopefully everyone is cool, but I don't think there are any deal-breakers in the house-rules so far. Changing the rules just gives min-maxers another facet to consider, it doesn't suck the min-maxiness out of them. I think your idea of asking for character descriptions, first, is probably the best move to dissuade min-maxy behaviors, and you're already doing it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) QUOTE You're right that my hacking changes are to prevent a Logic 1 hacker from still kicking ass. I could get behind the idea that hacking skills can not exceed the related attribute. Are there other areas I've not considered where the associated attribute isn't useful, like hacking skills? There are probably a couple, but the hacking subsystem is the most notorious for deviating away from the attribute+skill system. Another option would be to leave the dice-pools as skill+program and limit hits by logic (or resonance for TMs). Then your logic 1-2 hacker could download whatever bleeding-edge software he wants and fire it up, but because he doesn't really know what he's doing, he's only going to be able to make so much use of the results - and threading stays as useful as before. |
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#25
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Old Man of the North ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,236 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 ![]() |
I've got four characters who have been in games here on DS that have turned belly up.
Bongo Slade: (Adept) Brash, young drummer. Performance, perception, memory, missiles, languages. Looking to find the "Heartbeat of Gaia" so he can play it. Vignette: [ Spoiler ] Yazata: (Magician) Magician of Zoroastrian Tradition. Believes himself (up to GM as he has Amnesia) to be an angel from the hosts of Ahura Mazda, banished to Earth for some unknown transgression. He believes he must redeem himself through lots of 'smiting' of evil, especially demons, in order to be allowed back. Basic Spellcasting and Conjuring, including Banishing. Professor: (Adept) A rising career as an archaeologist is cut short when Professor is framed for murders and theft of an artifact that may have clues to a past age. He dodges the charges but is shunned out of the profession. He enters the shadows to find the one who framed him. (No, the guy is not missing an arm.) Just missed him once, but made an Enemy. Analysis, languages, memory, flexibility of function through Living Focus. Hodder: (Mystic Adept) A young student of the Qabballa (Possession Tradition) shuns the life of study and contemplation for the thrill of life as an art thief. Multi-talented infiltrator, thief, (a bit of) mind control. Hmm... just noticed he is 400 BP plus 50 Karma. Well, he's available. Vignette: [ Spoiler ]
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 20th June 2025 - 05:35 AM |
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