Knowledge Junkie Qualities and 'Ware, Do they stack? |
Knowledge Junkie Qualities and 'Ware, Do they stack? |
Dec 20 2011, 06:37 AM
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#1
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Real quick question: building a knowledge junkie Prime Runner NPC; y'know, the kind of guy who's a walking encyclopedia and need some advice regarding qualities:
Throwing in School Of Hard Knocks, Technical School Education, College Education, Linguist, Analytical Mind and Speed Reading, and then throwing in Learning Stimulus Nanoware rtg 3, Recall nanoware rtg 3, and a Mnemonic Enhancer rtg 2. (and Media Junkie and Compulsive: Knowledge Junkie...) So, by my math, as soon as he puts any points in any knowledge skill excepting interests, he basically has it at rating 4 (1+knowledge quality + enhancer), and can raise it for minimal karma (house rule: Learning Stimulus reduces karma costs to a minimum of 1), and languages immediately jump to rating 5 (1 + linguist + enhancer). My question is, do these stack or not? |
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Dec 20 2011, 06:55 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,003 Joined: 3-May 11 From: Brisbane Australia Member No.: 29,391 |
A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x 1.5 SR4A P118 so you need a higher base skill for all the bonuses to apply.
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Dec 20 2011, 07:13 AM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
mnemonic enhancer only gives a dice pool bonus; it does not actually raise knowledge or language skills.
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Dec 20 2011, 07:17 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 673 Joined: 9-May 08 Member No.: 15,965 |
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Dec 20 2011, 07:30 AM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,373 Joined: 14-January 10 From: Stuttgart, Germany Member No.: 18,036 |
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Dec 20 2011, 07:38 AM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Huh. Does that mean that knowledge and language skills have their augmented ratings cap at 9 as well? Or do they just cap at 6, meaning that you only need to have 4 ranks and a +2 modifier?
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Dec 20 2011, 11:29 AM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
I assume they would cap at 9 just like active skills, although keep in mind that other than the qualities you mentioned earlier, there really any boosts to them (even aptitude and improved ability are only for active skills, although I would probably house rule to allow both to be used for knowledge skills, if a player was that gung-ho about a particular knowledge skill). Things like mnemonic enhancers would not be affected by the augmented rating at all, since they are dice pool modifiers, and thus, not subject to the cap. Same with some geneware treatments like PuSHeD.
It's hard to figure out how those qualities work out in play - okay, the linguist quality. The others are fairly easy - you buy them up to two, then they suddenly "jump" to 3. Linguist will do that, too, but when do you get the second point? I assume you have to buy ranks 4 and 5 normally, and then it "jumps" to 6. |
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Dec 20 2011, 11:42 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 13-November 11 From: Vienna, Austria Member No.: 43,494 |
A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x 1.5 SR4A P118 so you need a higher base skill for all the bonuses to apply. Interestingly, this rule is stated in every context with skill enhancers (in the description in the rulebook), exept for the knowledge/language enhancing qualities. Maybe this rule is only meant for active skills. |
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Dec 20 2011, 04:30 PM
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#9
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
It's always a mistake to read the tea leaves in a way that helps us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) All of these probably should have been written as DP mods, and yes, they should have either said the R*1.5 rule was general, or specified. However, we work with what we've got. It's a reasonable assumption that Knowledges *aren't* uniquely uncapped without anyone ever even implying that.
Still, unless your GM is also giving away 'complementary' Knowledge dice to real skills, it's probably harmless enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Dec 20 2011, 04:55 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 673 Joined: 9-May 08 Member No.: 15,965 |
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Dec 20 2011, 08:46 PM
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#11
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
It's hard to figure out how those qualities work out in play - okay, the linguist quality. The others are fairly easy - you buy them up to two, then they suddenly "jump" to 3. Linguist will do that, too, but when do you get the second point? I assume you have to buy ranks 4 and 5 normally, and then it "jumps" to 6. Why do you think linguist works any different from other, it should work exactly same, so: Base rating/rating with linguist 1/1 2/3 3/4 4/6 5/7 6/8 |
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Dec 20 2011, 08:52 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Apparently, as of SR4A, the modified rating is used to determine the cost of improving a skill. Something I would seriously consider house ruling to how you have it, just to make skill costs simpler.
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Dec 20 2011, 09:15 PM
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#13
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
Apparently, as of SR4A, the modified rating is used to determine the cost of improving a skill. Something I would seriously consider house ruling to how you have it, just to make skill costs simpler. I cant find this particular rule anywhere, so a quote would be appreciated. |
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Dec 20 2011, 11:31 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 573 Joined: 23-July 03 From: outside America Member No.: 5,015 |
I cant find this particular rule anywhere, so a quote would be appreciated. Well there is this for skills:QUOTE (SR4A pg 68) Some implants and magic, as noted in their descriptions, may increase the actual skill, creating a modified skill rating, whereas others may simply provide bonus dice to the test (and do not affect the base rating at all). Note that the modified rating is used when calculating costs to improve the skill. The maximum modified rating allowed is 1.5 times the natural rating (making 9 the maximum achievable, or 10 with the Aptitude quality). and (less relevant to this discussion) there is something similar for attributes:QUOTE (SR4A p196) Improved Physical Attribute Cost: .75 per level With this power, you can raise a Physical attribute (Agility, Body, Reaction, or Strength). Each level increases the attribute by one. If you later want to increase the attribute using Karma (p. 269), the cost is based on the total attribute, including the magical improvements. Increasing Reaction with this power also affects Initiative. This power allows you to exceed your natural attribute maximum up to the augmented maximum, but each point over the maximum costs double (1.5 Power points per level). |
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Dec 21 2011, 12:07 AM
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#15
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Only problem I see in this thread is the vast majority of those things are dice pool modifiers, not skill modifiers. Especially the qualities.
Look at Mnemonic enhancers, then look at Reflex recorders... the latter is a skill modifier, the former isn't. About the only way to limit dice pool mods is to kick in things like some of the suggested house rules. EG: no dice pool can exceed 2x skill+attribute. |
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Dec 21 2011, 12:29 AM
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#16
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Yeah, the problem of a system that slightly relies on Skill Mods and largely relies on DP mods (and, just to be a pain, sometimes Threshold mods) is that it's not really balanced for any of them. Personally, I'd specify that X is incompatible with Y and be done with it.
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Dec 21 2011, 03:00 PM
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#17
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
Well there is this for skills: Oh, how very nice of them to not include any mention of that to the actual chapter that is about improving characters in play (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) |
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