Mana Static, Is it still useful? Options

[bobbaganoosh]

I couldn't find any threads already discussing this, but I recently discovered that Street Magic errata v 1.4.1. (which has been out since February) changed Mana Static, such that "background count rises at a rate of 1 per Combat Turn up to the Force of the spell."
Does this mean that Mana Static can no longer be used to neuter spirits or opposing mages?
Secondly, I thought that Mana Static only generates a BC with a rating equal to the hits on the spellcasting test. So which is it? Hits or Force?

[Udoshi]

Both.

Per the errata, the text is ADDED, not REPLACING anything.

So.
Creates a background count of 1 for every hit scored by the caster. Background count rises up by 1 per combat turn up to the force of the spell.



Basically it helps prevents WHUP FORCE 9 spell, dice gave my 1 hit!

[bobbaganoosh]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Udoshi. For some reason, I thought that the BC started at 0, not at the number of hits rolled on the spellcasting test. I have to remember to think when I read the rules...

[unsound]

Wait, is that really how it works? I thought it starts at 0 and goes up, too. If that's true, it makes Mana Static even more powerful, not less.

[Falconer]

Yes it's still quite useful. Even if your GM starts it at whatever the background count is and raises it up to the hits.


It's one of the few spells which can mess with things across the physical/astral barrier since it interferes with the raw magic of the area. So lets say you have a meat mage who isn't assensing... you could still catch him in it.

Another good use. Wards... the ward weakens in the area of the BGC but doesn't alert it's master. Which makes it easier to then slip through.

If you have the advanced 'filtering' metamagic it's even better... as you're not affected by the background count you yourself create. This makes it even easier to force your way through wards (or sneak through if you've assensed the creator). I've used this to create a bubble around me while astral to discourage spirits from attacking me. (it's a positive BGC so you'll rack up visibility penalties on yourself, but it's still worthwhile. Stop and think what that means... a spirit attacking you loses 1 point of force... -1 attribute, -1 skill, -1 visibility... so you take -1... he takes -3... -2, -6).

Similarly lets say you're running a checkpoint. The area of the BGC is pretty localized. You get a temporary 4 point BGC on the door... and suddenly a lot of mages are gonna see their force 4 sustaining foci suddenly disabled. Or the street sam he tried to 'invis' or 'physical mask' is in for a rude shock as he tries to go through.

[Udoshi]

Mana static is also fantastic for taking out pesky astral spirits with - and one of the few options that doesn't require astral perception.

Background count doesn't care whether a spirit is astral or materialized, if its inside the area of effect, its getting hit with the nerf-bat. If the count is higher than its force, its shit out of luck.

[Irion]

They definitly did not want to make it into something like that I guess.
But RAW, you are correct...

[Udoshi]

Why not? Background count has always been a fuck you to anything magic-related.

Also, unlike normal background count, Mana Static can be counterspelled away.

[Irion]

@Udoshi
Because it is the ultimate killer against spirits...

[Stahlseele]

Well, they made it from a magical fuck you bomb into a magical fuck you fire . .

[Bodak]

Another good use. Wards... the ward weakens in the area of the BGC but doesn't alert it's master. Which makes it easier to then slip through.

This sounds like you're trying to move a magical effect (an active focus or spell on either plane, or a projecting mage on the astral, or a spirit) through a (hopefully stationary) barrier. The BGC would reduce the Force of the barrier by the Force of the Mana Static spell. But that background also applies to the thing you're trying to sneak through the ward.

Since a single mage can theoretically erect a F24 ward straight out of chargen or after one run (depending on latitude) with some good rolls, I've generally encountered wards of a higher rating than the things I've wanted to sneak through them. Was that the case in your suggestion too or did I miss something?

Also, unlike normal background count, Mana Static can be counterspelled away.

As long as you catch it before it becomes permanent.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Since a single mage can theoretically erect a F24 ward straight out of chargen or after one run (depending on latitude) with some good rolls, I've generally encountered wards of a higher rating than the things I've wanted to sneak through them. Was that the case in your suggestion too or did I miss something?

Not possible out of Chargen. At best, the mage will have a Magic of 6. Thus only capable of creating a Ward of Force 12 (that just might Kill the Mage if he is unlucky with the Drain Roll). Your theory that a newly realized metahuman magician is capable of creating a Rating 24 Ward is simply BS, as it would require 6 Initiations and an additional 6 points of Magic to produce such a ward (Several Hundred points of Karma, at least). Now, a Greater Dragon can produce such a Ward with relative ease (assuming they can reduce the 24 points of Drain to manageable levels), but a MetaHuman Mage is not going to be doing so any time soon, if ever (24 physical drain is a killer, in case you were unaware).

[Udoshi]

Thus only capable of creating a Ward of Force 12

Extreme edge case here. At first I wondered how it was possible, then I recalled Vampires and Spirit pacts. Both things have the potential to raise your *actual* magic stat.

[Bodak]

Your theory that a newly realized metahuman magician is capable of creating a Rating 24 Ward is simply BS, as it would require 6 Initiations and an additional 6 points of Magic to produce such a ward

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) it's possible without going through all that.

Anyway, be that as it may, my point stands that typically NPC wards are far higher ratings than things PCs are trying to drag through them and so I don't see how Mana Static is going to help. If it's high enough to subdue the ward, it's likely high enough to quench the PC's item too. Is this not the case?

[bobbaganoosh]

There is always the possibility that some GMs may permit Aspected Mana Static, in which case, the players (and opposition) will have no trouble passing through wards.

[Udoshi]

There is always the possibility that some GMs may permit Aspected Mana Static, in which case, the players (and opposition) will have no trouble passing through wards.

This was removed from street magic for a DAMN GOOD reason.

[bobbaganoosh]

This was removed from street magic for a DAMN GOOD reason.

From what I was able to glean from the numerous threads, it's simply too powerful, and was thus removed (but now thoroughly enough). And yet, the spell seems to be in a printing of the German version of Street Magic, as well as the compiled tables in the back of my copy. Plus, the only limit for creating new spells, such as a version of Mana Static that happens to create an Aspected Domain, is the GMs word. As such, if the GM permits players to get the spell, then they get the spell. If not, then they don't. Just like every other spell, quality, piece of gear, or what have you, in every system that exists, including Shadowrun.

Of course, one could just cast Mana Static, and then use Filtering to negate some of the downsides.

[Ascalaphus]

From what I was able to glean from the numerous threads, it's simply too powerful, and was thus removed (but now thoroughly enough). And yet, the spell seems to be in a printing of the German version of Street Magic, as well as the compiled tables in the back of my copy. Plus, the only limit for creating new spells, such as a version of Mana Static that happens to create an Aspected Domain, is the GMs word. As such, if the GM permits players to get the spell, then they get the spell. If not, then they don't. Just like every other spell, quality, piece of gear, or what have you, in every system that exists, including Shadowrun.

Of course, one could just cast Mana Static, and then use Filtering to negate some of the downsides.

This is equivalent to saying that if the GM permits it, players can play IEs. You can always throw common sense out of the window and allow it, but it's not in the book because it's probably a very bad idea, and they don't want to saddle GMs with whining players saying "but it's in the book!"

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This was removed from street magic for a DAMN GOOD reason.

Still in my copy... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And we allow it. Being a permanent Spell, It really is not all that powerful, though it does have a few nice uses. Of course, I do not set out to abuse it either, so... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Falconer]

TJ: I strongly agree with the others... mana static is fine. Aspected mana static is far too powerful and was a badly broken spell and was removed from the books with good cause.

And lets face it german editions have a bad habit of publishing a lot of extra stuff (I guess this is to sell german language books, as opposed to buying less expensive mass produced english copies). I suspect they continued their habit of printing everything and anything.

[Stahlseele]

Actually, our german stuff is, by now, vastly superior to the english stuff . .

Furthermore, aspected mana static was the most over powered in terms of ritual magic.
Lodge with force creates an equal aspected bgc, then use that to overcast Mana-Static to stupid levels safely.
Then use the combined BGC to summon something larger than lofwyrs head.

[Dakka Dakka]

Then use the combined BGC to summon something larger than lofwyrs head.

Pun Pun?
Well you could summon a powerful spirit of man with aspected mana static as optional power....

SCNR

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

TJ: I strongly agree with the others... mana static is fine. Aspected mana static is far too powerful and was a badly broken spell and was removed from the books with good cause.

And lets face it german editions have a bad habit of publishing a lot of extra stuff (I guess this is to sell german language books, as opposed to buying less expensive mass produced english copies). I suspect they continued their habit of printing everything and anything.

So tell me, since I have yet to see it in our game. What makes Aspected Mana Static so much more powerful than the Standard Mana Static. It is a permanent, Stationary spell, with a minor area of effect, that can be brought down (or actively negated) by counterspelling. It gives the caster a small boost, assuming he is willing to STAY in that Minor Area of Effect as the static builds in power; but it is such an insignificant boost compared to the fact that he is tied there, that it is almost useless in practice for boosting your actual spellcasting in a stressful situation. It is actually no more powerful in play than the normal Mana Static is, at least in my experience. And, If you are outside the area of effect, it is no different than the Standard Mana Static.

Where it shines, is in prepatory spell work. Put one up in your doss, and then reap a minor reward. But it still does not let you cast magic you otherwise could not have cast, since your Magic stays the same. You get a DP bonus. Which is a Big deal for a caster with average DP's (7-10 DP) but is otherwise fairly inconsequential, especially for those optimized mages everyone is so pleased as punch to make. Now you have even more dice to waste on your spell cap. Whoopee...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Actually, our german stuff is, by now, vastly superior to the english stuff . .

Furthermore, aspected mana static was the most over powered in terms of ritual magic.
Lodge with force creates an equal aspected bgc, then use that to overcast Mana-Static to stupid levels safely.
Then use the combined BGC to summon something larger than lofwyrs head.

German Product sounds very cool... Too bad I cannot read German. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

First: Lodges do not create a BGC.
Second: Aspected Mana Static does not last long enough for actual rituals (It is a decrementing bonus, every hour, so not real useful for a ritual)
Third: BGC does not Boost Magic, so you cannot summon more powerful than you could have in the first place (all you get is more dice, which may, arguably, give you more successess, which may allow you to actually succeed at the summoning/binding... but I would not count on it). And even if it did, it would likely, promptly, kill you due to Drain... Silly Summoner...

[Stahlseele]

Lodges do not? O.o
I thought they did.
Does not last long enough for actual ritual. OK, this i will give you.
But if you have a ritual team, simply have someone stand by and re-cast aspected mana static again and again.
Ah, right, SR4 no more boost to magic, i forgot.