Cash versus Credit. Options

[Paul]

The age old debate. How prevalent is electronic currency in your games? How do you see this currency system working? how does it work for the disenfranchised? How does it work in third world nations? Is cash completely gone in your setting? break it down for us.

[Wakshaani]

Similar to today, wher eyou have the "Underbanked" and the "Unbanked".

In middle class and up society, it's all COmmlinks and credits. *ping* you're good to go. Once in a blu emoon, somebody comes up (usually an older person) with cash and the place freezes as the chashiers have to call a member of management over, because they're not trained for that sort of thing.

In the lower classes, it's a decent split. The machines are old and slow (And, hey, they still take Credsticks! How 2060 is THAT?!) but they can do some small cash transactions. Nothing kept at the till of course, and in such small amounts that it's not really worth breaking into the manager's office to get it, but, it's there.

In the underbelly, most don't even have credsticks, let alone Commlinks. Oh, some use prepaid ones that they can't afford, but, that's life when the rules are stacked against you. They deal in cash, visiting the very bottom rung of merchants (Your dollar stores, your Goodwill, and so on), and engage in a lot of trade and barter with neighbors. (Hey Marie, you don't need all that milk, right? I have some extra soy crackers and ... what? Oh now, you still owe me for watchin' your kids that weekend when you went out with the guy who ... yeah, alright. Fair trade then!)

The criminal element (By which I mean syndicates and high-end runners, not gangers and low rnners) use untraceable certified credsticks mainly.

[Midas]

Perhaps I am just lazy, but I tend to make payment in certified credstick as standard. Occasionally the Johnson may offer part payment in toys the PCs might be coveting, but the either/or newyen offer is always there. Payment in cases full of CAS dollars or Corp Scrip could add flavour to the campaign, and I might try branching out in the future, but the PCs gotta pay the rent ...

[Fatum]

Since nobody in our group is an economy major, we're just using electronic currency. For simplicity I just suppose that reasonably untraceable accounts are included into the lifestyle costs for runners.

[CanRay]

Since nobody in our group is an economy major, we're just using electronic currency. For simplicity I just suppose that reasonably untraceable accounts are included into the lifestyle costs for runners.

Black Bank Accounts!

"Da Foist Bank A Tony" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[bibliophile20]

The way I've been running it is that, in the world economy, most money is electronic. However, as it's in the best interest of the corps to still allow the existence of hard currency (for untraceable purposes), a few percentage points circulate as hard copy cash. (Recalling the Leverage ep "The Homecoming Job"; why is a few million in cash useful to a multi-billion dollar corp? Because it is cash, and therefore anonymous.)

[Wakshaani]

A quick check reveals that the current US Mints are in West Point New York, Philly, Denver, and San Francisco.

Assuming that West Point went inactive, and that the CAS got the Denver Mint during Treaty of Denver UCAS-CAS splitting, that would leave a single mint for the UCAS, the CAS, and teh California Free State. (Philly stays due to being the first, so historical. Denver might be in native hands instead of the CAS... if so, then the CAS would have to create one of their own. The CAS is bound to have far more desire for cash than the UCAS, due to heritage issues.)

[CanRay]

There's also the Mints in Winnipeg and Ottawa, both still in the UCAS.

The Ottawa Mint makes the purest gold in the world, BTW.

And while on a tour of the Winnipeg Mint years ago, I actually saw some of the negotiators walking around at the same time from other countries inspecting things to see if they wanted their coinage produced there. (I remember because my Stepfather was quite pissed off that they got to keep their daggers while the RCMP took his Zippo away.).

[Fatum]

It's not like it is that much of a problem to found a money-making institution when you have some 60 years for the task.

[Paul]

I'd imagine minting money is the least of the problems posed by having hard currency in a setting. We rarely touch on the behind the scenes stuff-currency security, design, etc...but it's there.

[Bull]

As a note, despite a general assumption to the contrary, there *IS* still both actual paper & coin money, and certified credsticks are still a viable form of payment. How common they are depends on where you are at, what "class" you're dealing with, etc.

99% of the population works for a megacorp. Most of them live in their megacorps housing, shop at their corps company store, etc. For them, there's no reason to ever touch paper money.

But, there's still the SINless, the street, and the shadowrunner population. And more importantly, there's still areas where the matrix is unreliable, and without the matrix, you can't use normal credit. So you have tor resort to older forms of currency and transactions.

Seattle 2072 specifically mentions that paper currnecy is more common there than many other places because of the spotty matrix connection in some parts of the city. In th Ork Underground, there's virtually no matrix access in most of it, so paper money is the main form of currency used.

[3278]

99% of the population works for a megacorp.

Literally, or figuratively?

And more importantly, there's still areas where the matrix is unreliable, and without the matrix, you can't use normal credit.

Why do you need the matrix to use normal credit? You didn't need the matrix to use a credstick; why is it necessary now?

[Bull]

Literally, or figuratively?

Figuratively. Though not by much. The megacorps own the majority of the world, after all, though sometimes you have to really backtrail the data to find that out.

and that 99% doesn't take into account the SINless. they're not real people, after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Why do you need the matrix to use normal credit? You didn't need the matrix to use a credstick; why is it necessary now?

Because the Credstick was a dedicated device that you, theoretically, still had to sync up to the bank occasionally to enact the actual funds transfer. It was incredibly difficult to deck into one and steal the Nuyen off it, or to mess with the amounts.

Wireless changed all of that. All your data is now stored on your commlink, and as we all know, commlinks are stupid easy to hack. Would you trust your money to a Shadowrun commlink?

To be honest. a lot of this is my own take, with a bit of backup from Seattle 2072's comments about the lack of wireless making phsyical currency necessary. So far, no one's told me not to do it this way in anything I've written, at any rate, and it's not particularly well defined in SR4 anywhere so taht leaves it open to interpretation. But basically, I look at it like the normal cred system is like using a credit or debit card. If the stores internet connection goes down, you can;t use a credit card (and very, VERY few stores use the old carbon copy swipers anymore). Certified Credsticks are like prepaid cards, except that any computer can read and recognize the amount stored on there. And cash is, well, cash.

<shrug>

Bull

[Shortstraw]

I have people in the magic trade using orichalcum beads as a currency. Expensive, portable, and hard to devalue if people can see it has been adulterated by its aura.

[Wakshaani]

'Course, with beeds, you get into the old Barter issues.

Credsticks, by the by, held data on them, while commlinks tend to be more 'access on the go'. I think everything in corruent Shadowrun is "Cloud"-style computing.

[CanRay]

I thought the Nuyen was actually in the bank, and the CommLink just worked like a Debit Card built into your SmartPhone?

At least, that's how I ran it.

[Midas]

Because the Credstick was a dedicated device that you, theoretically, still had to sync up to the bank occasionally to enact the actual funds transfer. It was incredibly difficult to deck into one and steal the Nuyen off it, or to mess with the amounts.

Wireless changed all of that. All your data is now stored on your commlink, and as we all know, commlinks are stupid easy to hack. Would you trust your money to a Shadowrun commlink?

Bull

Interesting, I figured most people wouldn't store their cred as emoney on their easily hackable commlinks for security reasons. I would have thought wage slaves would have a Corp debit/credit card, and maybe certified credsticks for any transactions they might not be so comfortable about Big Brother knowing. I am definitely gonna keep playing it that way, lest my players boost their hacking skills so they never have to run again ...

[JanessaVR]

I thought the Nuyen was actually in the bank, and the CommLink just worked like a Debit Card built into your SmartPhone?

At least, that's how I ran it.

Exactly. The money's not on your 'link, just probably the user id's/passwords to get at the money - which is safe and sound (?) at your bank.

[Bull]

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. that was my point, that with commlinks being so easily hacked, the money isn't actually stored on them. My example above is that it's essentially you're ATM card.

Bull

[CanRay]

Right, and with your banking information (And the saved PIN, as no one wants to actually press BUTTONS all the time!), they can access your accounts. Gotcha Bull!

[JanessaVR]

Right, and with your banking information (And the saved PIN, as no one wants to actually press BUTTONS all the time!), they can access your accounts. Gotcha Bull!

Exactly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In the end, to a hacker, it practically counts as the same thing. Get into the 'link, get into the money.

[CanRay]

"First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the Purples!" "You mean women." "I. Fragging. WISH!"

[Ascalaphus]

Okay, this is a nice morning, and I'm feeling inspired, so I'll bite (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The most wholesome form of money, in the eyes of the SINners, is a bank account registered to your name. It contains Nuyen and/or Scrip. It's accessed through your commlink (somewhat insecure, not recommended), through a named-credstick attached to your commlink (you have to approve all transactions by physically pressing a button on the practically unhackable credstick) which is more secure, or it's accessed through a stationary (home or office) terminal (also fairly secure).

Nuyen is a universal currency; it's accepted in most parts of the world, SINing and SINless, because everyone knows that it'll be accepted from them in turn. Also, the Nuyen is completely electronic; there's no Nuyen bills. Some (corporate) territories may not recognize Nuyen as legal tender, insisting on Scrip, but Nuyen still accepted on the black market.
There are no unique individual Nuyen; bank accounts simply have a balance in Nuyen, and only high-level banks can issue new Nuyen, all under the supervision of Z-OG. (Lower end banks are still allowed to have Nuyen accounts, but are not money-creating banks.) Z-OG regularly (perhaps hourly, or even faster) checks the balance of all banks allowed to run Nuyen accounts, to see if irregularities have occurred. If irregularities occur, a team of Swiss Accountant Ninjas descends to check the books and rectify the discrepancy. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of that.

Corporations can issue Scrip as legal tender inside their jurisdiction. It's often illegal to spend Scrip outside the corporation's jurisdiction, making sure the money stays inside the corporation's little mercantilist universe. Exchanging Scrip for Nuyen or other outside currencies may or may not be legal; if it's legal it's probably still pricey, since corporations want to discourage their citizens from buying stuff outside that the corporation can provide itself. Some corporations may issue cash Scrip, others think that's dated.

Nation-states issue their own currency, which is a little bit freer than Scrip; generally you're free to exchange it for Nuyen or spend it out of the country, although there are exceptions. Most nation-states are bound by the Business Recognition Accords to recognize Nuyen as legal tender alongside their own currency however.

---

Cash: some nation-states and corporations issue cash. Cash is tricky because protecting it from forgery tends to cost more than the bills are worth (nanomanufacture!). This results in cash basically being like jewelry: it's production, not just the raw materials, add to the value. Even well-forged cash (with all the requisite nano-level watermarks) represents a significant investment in production, and therefore value. It's kind of like having a Black Mint alongside the Fed, but since it's in the Black Mint's interest not to cause rampant inflation, the system works. (If someone clever sets up a second Black Mint and floods the country with cash, a shadowrun/terrorist strike will happen in record time.)
Cash is still important, because of the significant SINless population. A lot of them don't want to use Matrix money too much for fear of attracting significant attention from Big Brother, and the anonymity of Cash helps. It's also safer from hackers, which matters a lot to people who can't afford secure commlinks. Cash is also popular with SINners who like to slum; to buy drugs with for example. If a wageslave is discovered to possess a lot of cash, it won't look good on his Performance Review.

Credsticks: really simple machines, but because of that, very hard to compromise. They carry a One-Time Pad, and are connected to a single bank account which also has that OTP. The OTP is big enough to never run out, and (mathematically proven) an impossible to break encryption method, used to communicate securely.
The credstick can do two things: view the balance of the bank account, and transfer money to another account. The money isn't on the credstick but in the bank. The credstick can't do anything else, so even if you hack it, the only thing you can do is empty the bank account, not add to it. However, since the credstick doesn't need any remote functionality, it's built so that remote logging in (and hacking) isn't possible; you need hardware access for that.
Credsticks may be linked to an anonymous account or to an account registered to a specific person. In the latter case, that person can revoke the credstick (if stolen, perhaps), and place limits on how it may be used (whitelist, transaction limit, etc.), similar to an advanced bank card. Anonymous accounts don't have these options; if the stick is lost, the finder gets the money. If not found, then free money for the bank.

Why do corporations allow anonymous credsticks? First, a surprising amount of money is earned by credsticks getting lost. Second, because it enables the SINless to participate in the economy and buy products, which is good for business. Third, because it facilitates a corporation's illegal dealings.

Who uses credsticks? Everyone. SINners use named credsticks as a security feature; even if their commlink is remotely hacked, you still need to physically press a button to authorize transactions. These credsticks fit into commlinks like a mouse into a computer: completely commonplace.
Anonymous credsticks are used for things you don't want your wife or boss to know about. Kind of like prepaid phones. And they're used by the SINless to engage in more expensive purchases.

As you might have noticed, SINless are basically allowed to engage in the economy by the corporations, as long as they have money. This makes sense; just because you've deprived them of civil rights and social security, is no reason not to let them buy your soyburgers.

---

Other Currency, Barter: despite the availability of Cash and Credsticks, the SINners are on the short end of the stick in the realm of financial instruments. Money is a very useful tool for structuring barter, and making it possible to trade things of unequal value. However, not every currency is equally useful. In blighted Puyallup, Matrix access is scarce which lowers demand for Nuyen and raises demand for Cash, for example. There are regional differences, and a clever hustler can make a living as a moneychanger. Besides that, there are all sorts of communes of weirdos, who have unusual capital (like telesma) for trade. Many of those can function as currency, if they're hard enough to falsify and rare and valuable enough.

Credit: if an area has a shortage of currency while goods are still traded or bartered, eventually there will pop up some system of credit; like the local store recording that you still owe them ten Nuyen, while they owe the baker five and the butcher four, and so forth. This requires some trust between people, but if that's possible then this system can function fairly well. Again, someone can make a living by being a credit-trader who can vouch for people's trustworthiness if they want to do business but don't know each other well enough. Or by negotiating the value of one type of money used to settle debts in another kind. Even the Barrens have their bankers.

Actually, the Banker of the Barrens could be an interesting NPC.

[squee_nabob]

In my game the standard unit of currency is the briefcase full of money. Most shadowruns pay between one and three briefcases full of money. What regular people do with regular money is outside of the scope of the game.

[3278]

Because the Credstick was a dedicated device that you, theoretically, still had to sync up to the bank occasionally to enact the actual funds transfer. It was incredibly difficult to deck into one and steal the Nuyen off it, or to mess with the amounts.

If the system can't safely cache transactions, then it can't be trusted to send the same transactions live. If the security on the commlink is so bad that it cannot safely store secure payment information, then payment by commlink would be useless in all situations, not just cached transactions.

All your data is now stored on your commlink, and as we all know, commlinks are stupid easy to hack. Would you trust your money to a Shadowrun commlink?

And yet everyone does. That suggests that there's probably something wrong with the ease with which commlinks can be hacked, since the implication is that the world's financial systems would all dissolve overnight.

None of this is your fault: you're writing based on version precedent, and have to act within those walls. Fortunately, I am not thus limited, and can allow cached transactions and the same type and level of encryption of financial data that we grew accustomed to in SR1-3: "Mostly. Mostly."