Dragon Civil War, Where is this going? Options

[Sengir]

The 6th world is changing. There will always be a place for shadowrunners

Sure, it's called retirement home. If you can just pillage your competition in broad daylight you can also send your own black ops teams without having to care should the job get traced back, why hire shadowy figures from the street?

[Jhaiisiin]

Because in open and public conflict, there are rules and limitations that others will accept. Go past those limits too often or too far and more and more people will turn on you. Shadow ops fills that gap.

[Sengir]

Just to be clear what we are talking about

A mere week after the assassination of the head of the Shasta Shamans, six of Saeder-Krupp’s largest assets in the Middle East were targeted and were destroyed. Explosions occurred in factories and offices belonging to Saeder-Krupp subsidiaries, including Heavy Metal, Fatima Petrochemicals, Iraq Oil, Maser Industrial Electronics, and Krupp Munitions. In the final attack against Saeder-Krupp in these series of assaults, Hestaby herself made an appearance in Dubai, in a gesture that was obviously meant to make a statement of her own, perhaps to Lofwyr directly to let him know in no uncertain terms that she is quite capable of fighting her own battles, and perhaps as a reminder to us all that she is still a very dangerous force to be reckoned with. Hestaby was seen and recorded flying over Dubai, attacking the S-K Middle East division headquarters. The attack lasted close to an hour. In that time, the forty-seven-story arcology was reduced to a pile of twisted and melted durasteel, shattered armored glass, and a fifteen-meter deep crater. To emphasize the metahumanism that lies at the core of Hestaby’s philosophy, in each of the attacks on Saeder-Krupp, advanced warning was given to allow the facilities to be evacuated.

Mrs can't-we-just-get-along committed nothing else than an act of terrorism, personally and in broad daylight. Giving an advance warning does nothing to change that, most terror groups have the courtesy of phoning in before the bomb goes off.

[Wakshaani]

Of course, that's also not all THAT far from Aden's playground. Aden's a traditionalist, so likely on Lofwyr's side overall, but, not neccessarily so. He might be pulling a Schwartzkoff and stay neutral.

When ol' Golden Snout decides to bring it back, it's gon' get oogly.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Sirrurg is hunting those who kill his species. He just doesn't care about colateral damage.
Heck, he went low-profile for almost 20 years after the EuroAir Flight attack and reappeared later in Amazonia.
Everyone thought the Magician who protected the plane was a hero trying to save everyone on the plane. Considering that for at least a few seconds/minutes this Magician was capable of holding off a Great Dragon tells a lot about his power and second, the Magician was just trying to survive the attack, it just happened that everyone on the plane would share his destiny if he failed.

[CanRay]

It also makes you wonder who it was... And what he did to incur the Wrath Of Sirrurg!

...

Sounds like a good Simsense, actually...

[Snow_Fox]

wouldn't Alamay side with the Orange Queen then against SK?

[Paul]

I imagine in the politics of Dragons there is no cut and dried sides.

[LurkerOutThere]

Just one dragon killed by conventional firepower someplace other then Germany, that's all i'm asking. But of course we can't do that their power level is over 9000.

[Draco18s]

Sirrug has plans, and concepts, but shares them rarely even with other dragons. We know he has a supremecist streak and just plain ol' doesn't LIKE the lesser races. He might have a "Let the strongest survive" streak, or he might be Horror-tainted, or he might just really, rrally, REALLY want to take a nap but can't with all these living THINGS making NOISE all the time. If he can find a nice warm place where nothing is alive within ten klicks, he can finally get some shut-eye.

There's *always* a reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

All I can think of after reading (this thread up to here) is Dragon's Ring.

"Fionn—the black dragon—calmly tells anyone who will listen that he’s going to destroy the [the world]. Of course he’s a joker, a troublemaker and a dragon of no fixed abode. No one ever believes him. He’s dead serious."

[CanRay]

I imagine in the politics of Dragons there is no cut and dried sides.

Always in motion, negotiations are...

Just one dragon killed by conventional firepower someplace other then Germany, that's all i'm asking. But of course we can't do that their power level is over 9000.

Really? I'm showing 1006. ... Oh, sorry, I had it upside down.

[Sixgun_Sage]

No one sees them self as the villain, but great dragons have the power and arrogance to really do some damage when they think they are right. What bothers me is if this is some sort of long con by the scaly bastards to make themselves look more fractured as a group than they are.

[CanRay]

I think people tend to forget that Great Dragons (Hell, even dragons with a small "dee") are sentient WMDs that fly on their own and there's not many countermeasures for.

And find you tasty with ketchup. Or bier.

*Lifts bottle for the holidays*

[Draco18s]

And find you tasty with ketchup. Or bier.

And dipped in chocolate.

[Grinder]

I think people tend to forget that Great Dragons (Hell, even dragons with a small "dee") are sentient WMDs that fly on their own and there's not many countermeasures for.

As has been discussed (to death) before.

[CanRay]

As has been discussed (to death) before.

*Is too distracted beating the dead horse to notice Grinder said something*

[3278]

Mrs can't-we-just-get-along committed nothing else than an act of terrorism, personally and in broad daylight.

If she's doing it personally, in broad daylight, and with full warning, how is this an act of terrorism and not an act of war?

...most terror groups have the courtesy of phoning in before the bomb goes off.

Really?

[Grinder]

Remember the ToS, mkay?

[Nath]

An employee and close collaborator of Ms. Doe, was assassinated. The killer has yet to face justice, but Ms. Doe grew her own conviction that M. Roe was responsible. She was angered. She tried to do justice herself, by destroying a building that belonged to M. Doe company. She did this alone and never tried to hide it.

Is this an act of war? Is this is an act of terrorism? I ask you, members of the jury, to forget for a second my client is a thousands years-old thirty meters-long flying scaly beast that can twist Fate, as is her victim. To forget my client is a member of Tir Tairngire government. To forget that the building she destroyed was the regional headquarters of the largest megacorporations in the world. You realize she just was an angry person that cared for her employee and made a mistake. This is simply property damage, and nothing else. My client wasn't targeting Saeder-Krupp as a corporation, she wasn't targeting the Arabian caliphate, nor was she trying to intimidate either of them. She made sure the building was completely empty, so that nobody would be hurt. Had Ms. Hestaby and M. Lofwyr been farmers from Potter Valley, California, and the building destroyed a fifty feet-long warehouse, I wouldn't have to ask you to do so.

[3278]

Remember the ToS, mkay?

If that's pointed at me, you'll have to point closer: I'm no good at this sort of thing. ;)

[CanRay]

Remember the ToS, mkay?

*Is too distracted beating the dead horse to notice the ToS*

Hey, Grinder, you say something?

[bibliophile20]

*Is too distracted beating the dead horse to notice the ToS*

I have this shirt somewhere...

Front: "Necroequisadism: A typical internet discussion, typified by..."
Back: "...a screaming mob, pounding on a greasy spot on the pavement, wherein used to lie the body of a dead horse."

[Draco18s]

I have this shirt somewhere...

Front: "Necroequisadism: A typical internet discussion, typified by..."
Back: "...a screaming mob, pounding on a greasy spot on the pavement, wherein used to lie the body of a dead horse."

Want.

[Sengir]

If she's doing it personally, in broad daylight, and with full warning, how is this an act of terrorism and not an act of war?

OK, instead of wading into the discussion of what is terrorism let me rephrase it a bit: Most state-like entities would condemn such a lone-wulf action against a respected member of the international/-corporate community as an act of terrorism. Not necessarily out of moral conviction, but also because they do not want to tick off big L (most nations), or do not want to legitimize attacks against corp assets (the collective CC).

[Paul]

If I'm reading your post correctly, Sengir, you're saying that other entities-Corporations and Nation States alike,-fearing the cost of an all out war would try to marginalize Hestaby's attack, classifying it as Terrorism, and not a legitimate act of war?

Although that seems to leave out the most important arbitrator of whether this is an act of war, requiring a full scale response, or an act of terrorism...which requires at least some sort of response? (I was trying to think of how different the responses would be...but I couldn't come up with much in the way of meaningful differences. Heh.) Any ways, that individual would be Lofwyr right?