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> Things you never think about, Carrying money, what to drive, etc.
Eyeless Blond
post Apr 7 2004, 05:30 AM
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Just exposing the depths of my ignorance again, but in the average game, what transportation does a normal (eg. non-Rigger) runner usually use to start off? Should most runners have bikes and cars, or do they usually rely on a rigger to get that kind of stuff and use the bus for everything else? Is it unusual to buy a bike, but don't invest any points in driving skills? Or buy a car, and rely on the autonav all the time? I'm not talking about runs and run-related transport, there's already a thread about that, but for normal, everyday living life stuff. How does the average runner get around?

A related question is the aspect of cash. Do most people buy one or more forged credsticks at character creation to handle monetary needs, or do you usually stick to bills? How high rating of a forged credstick do your average runners use for regular food shopping? For high-level/high-Availabiliity transactions? For rent?

These kinds of things they really don't cover in the books that well. None of the example characters have equipment listed (other than cyerware) so it's hard to tell what a normal beginner should start off with.
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LaughingTiger
post Apr 7 2004, 05:45 AM
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QUOTE
what transportation does a normal (eg. non-Rigger) runner usually use to start off?


In most SR cities, there are a variety of public transportation options available. In larger cities, for day to day activities, public transit may be the way to go. From busses to subways (the Metro in St. Louis) to taxis, there are a variety of ways to get where you want to go inside the city limits. For trips between metroplexes, there are trains and other forms of transit. What a character starts with depends largely on what kind of game you're running and what Lifestyle the character chooses. The descriptions tell what the PC starts with.. from a tube pass to a car.

Obviously, for runs, you would almost always want an independent vehicle, just for convince.

QUOTE
A related question is the aspect of cash.


My games vary from the stated norm because I just can't get credsticks to work in my head. I keep cash around in my games, and treat CredSticks as highly versatile credit cards. Dirty Secret: In my game, Credsticks ARE cards. And for the transactions you mention, I still see cash (or checks, for rent) as a viable alternative. For a shadowrunner's rent, the check might not work, requireing a SIN and all, but a cred transfer from stick to stick would work. And I also think SR's would deal with certified cred, a lot.

If I'm rambling, forgive, late for me.
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tisoz
post Apr 7 2004, 07:23 AM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
These kinds of things they really don't cover in the books that well. None of the example characters have equipment listed (other than cyerware) so it's hard to tell what a normal beginner should start off with.

Check the back of the book about page 327. Maybe your copy is missing those pages?
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Synner
post Apr 7 2004, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
These kinds of things they really don't cover in the books that well. None of the example characters have equipment listed (other than cyerware) so it's hard to tell what a normal beginner should start off with.

As Tisoz has mentioned, archetype gear can be found in the back of the SR3 base book, everyday transportation is also mentioned in the lifestyle rules.

These basic everyday questions are answered and get even more coverage in the lifestyle book Sprawl Survival Guide including further information on getting round, money, credsticks/documents and forgery.
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Connor
post Apr 7 2004, 08:39 AM
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It's a house rule we've had fun with, but for those starting character's strapped for cash and still wanting a vehicle we let them buy 'used'. This means they get a discount on the listed price depending on how many stress points the vehicle has already incurred. Cheap bikes and Americar's you don't mind banging up in those runs! Plus, it keeps most characters from having to take the bus to the first few meets...heh.
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Talia Invierno
post Apr 7 2004, 01:52 PM
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As was noted earlier, quite a bit of that can be covered generally by the chosen lifestyle. Or it can be fleshed out to your heart's content.

I've known quite a few PCs who had basic vehicles for getting around, but no driving skill whatsoever. For a time, the one behind this username was one of them. For some reason, that option seems particularly popular among those I have gamed with for Awakened PCs.

Money: my characters usually carry some combination of a SINned or certified credstick on them, plus coins/bills in whatever denominations and total seem most appropriate to the social venue within which that PC is operating. Those who maintain more than one identity additionally keep lockers and such with a complete change of outfit, emergency funds, an alternate id, and sometimes even access to an alternate lifestyle and/or means of transportation. (This separation hopefully keeps one identity from being traced to the living space/bolthole of another identity.)

As one example, the former detective / now independent PC, living and working to maintain stability and justice in a small district of Redmond in semi-alliance with the local gang and a network of street children, habitually carries SIN with maybe a couple thousand on the credstick, plus (among other things) 500 in 50's, 10's, and 5's (edit to specify: cash notes) separately folded in a utility belt for baksheesh and straight payouts as needed.
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Siege
post Apr 7 2004, 02:10 PM
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Transport -- it depends on the character. Riggers, samurai and the highly technical people will have extra CG cred to blow on vehicles.

My adepts almost always rely on public transport, stolen vehicles or bicycles in the early stages of the game.

Some people rule lifestyles include transportation as a freebie -- my GM does not. He has been known, however, to allow characters to stop at "Cars R Us" used car sales and purchase vehicles at less than list price. Of course, we never really know what kinds of problems we've inherited.

Cash
Depends on the job. Day-to-day living, a hundred nuyen cash and credsticks.

Background legwork -- five hundred nuyen cash and certified credsticks.

Since I usually play an adept, I rarely have a fake ID on hand and rely (cautiously) on my real SIN.

-Siege
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Darkest Angel
post Apr 7 2004, 02:39 PM
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Transportation: In our games, if you want a car you have to pay for it, maintainance and fuel are covered by mid-lifestyles and up. If you don't have a car, but have a mid lifestyle your subway tickets, cab fares, and so on are covered.

Most of our PCs favoured means of getting around is walking and taking the subway, frequently with a large sportsbag :) If not, we'll get a cab. The only players that generally have a car are Riggers, who can't generally fit extra passengers in their vehicle thanks to drones and electronic warfare systems. If we really need a vehicle, the Fixer can usually find us someone we can borrow.

As for money, cash is king, certified credsticks are good too. Big no no to using SINs, real or otherwise though, since both can potentially be tracked (that false background doesn't change every time you use it you know).
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Austere Emancipa...
post Apr 7 2004, 02:55 PM
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The characters in my group used to have 2-4 cars or motorcycles each. Often crappy, often stolen, and almost always blown up or otherwise disposed of after some use, but they had a lot of cars. Useful when public transport requires a SIN -- either that or fumbling with almost-obsolete cash, bound to raise suspicion -- and the group might have to travel 1,000km on their own to the target area. Such is life for well-off runners in Finland. They all had the necessary skills at 1-3. For anything bigger than grocery shopping, they used their own wheels.

The group has only 1 fake SIN and matching credstick, which are rating 8 and are used very sparingly. Almost all transactions were made with certified credsticks in Finland. Now they're in Transylvania in the middle of a civil war (not canon, but what the heck), so they do most transactions with cash or barter.
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sidartha
post Apr 7 2004, 07:41 PM
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In most of my games between two and three people have some sort of passenger vehicle like the Americar or a Nomad. These are used mainly for recon drive-by's and meeting with contacts.
After about a month(game time) we pick up a dedicated runner vehicle that can fit the whole team + a hostage or two, usually the LR2045 pickup with covered hatch.
When we do have a dedicated Rigger, not often, that person has a van like the Bulldog Sec to transport the team.
I don't recall anyone having bought a vehicle and not had the skill unless it was part of their background.
Basically half the team has a car half relies on public transportation. Although it kinda funny when nobody has a car " we go the warehouse." "How do you get there?" "F&*K!!!" :D
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blakkie
post Apr 7 2004, 09:32 PM
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For cars there is buying used. Nothing beats the humour factor of a lemon...that another player owns. ;) But don't forget the other option given in R3 for "custom vehicles" that allow you to get stuff below normal list by taking on a design flaw or two. There are a couple that are worth 30% and %50 respectively.

Depending on how your GM uses those (i seem to remember R3 being very vague on how to combine the discounts for 2 design flaws) that means you'll get a vehicle for 35% to 20% :eek: of it's normal cost. Sure they are nasty flaws, but for just putting around, or treating them as disposable cars they are fine.

Also, one of the flaws is that the vehicle comes with a random number of stress points. I'm not sure if it is offically a "Used" flaw, but it certainly would work as one.

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John Campbell
post Apr 7 2004, 10:00 PM
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I'll usually get a cheap vehicle, if I can afford one (I seem to play a lot of low-Resource mages, so I frequently can't). If I get a car or van, I'll usually take Car 2 or so. If I get a motorcycle, I always take at least Bike 2... ditching a bike hurts a lot more than a little fender-bender with a car. I don't expect to do (or be able to do) driving on runs, but I don't expect the rigger to be my personal chauffeur when we're not working (they're a cow orker, not my life partner), either. It's nice to have my own wheels, and enough skill to have a chance of getting out of a tight spot in one piece (and I'm not even talking "enemy action", but "the dumbass in front of me just plowed into a Jersey barrier because he can't drive in the rain"). If I don't have a vehicle, I'll walk, take public transportation, or, sometimes, Levitate (it draws attention, but it's faster and easier than walking, especially when you've got short dwarf legs) in everyday life, and rely on the rigger to handle a team vehicle for meets and runs.

I've never played in a game where anyone made a big deal about credsticks and SINs. It's always been the assumption that certified cred and/or cash was readily available in whatever denominations were needed, that those of us who didn't have SINs lived in areas where not having one wasn't out of the ordinary, and if we needed fake SINs for something on a run, the employer would provide.
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RedmondLarry
post Apr 8 2004, 01:29 AM
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In our game someone usually buys a used Ford Americar, and the team (especially the Troll) has great joy when someone comes into the game with a Van. Most characters take no vehicle skill at creation (everyone min-max's and Vehicle Skills aren't that important unless you are a Rigger). If we used BECKS for character creation we'd probably have more vehicle skills in the group. We are far more likely to fade into the alleys using Stealth and Spirit-Concealment and Invisibility than to speed away in a vehicle.

Some GMs think of vehicles as just things-to-be-destroyed. My wife has never forgiven me for her samurai's Eurocar Westwind, and it was destroyed 4 years ago.

We choose to not make money handling a complicated part of our games. (You might choose otherwise.) We typically get paid in certified cred, we allow it to be transfered over phone lines and between credsticks in large or small quantities, and we treat it as if it can't be traced. Rarely do we deal in cash. The notion of keeping track of 22 certified credsticks with different amounts on them seems like way to much datakeeping for our kind of game.
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RedmondLarry
post Apr 8 2004, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (John Campbell)
I don't expect the rigger to be my personal chauffeur when we're not working (they're a cow orker, not my life partner), either.

In my game we've had cow totems and bull minitaurs, but not cow orkers. Are these like Hobgoblin Orkers or Oni Orkers (SRC p. 39-41)?
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imperialus
post Apr 8 2004, 04:29 AM
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I'll typically try and take a few points usually 2 or 3 in a vehical skill, generally car since it's the most usefull overall and a cheep Americar with a couple of stress points. I don't usually take my car on a run unless I have to but having some vehical skills is invaluable, especially on runs where you have the rigger drive everyone to the location and then you have to get out with another vehical. Sure I won't be able to outrun lone star but when I'm driving to the stuffer shack or ammo wurld I really should have to.
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vebor
post Apr 8 2004, 04:39 AM
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My face/adept goes around in a sports car to look good for meets.
(Nice suit, sports car, 4 months high lifestyle,rating 6 forged credstick)
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broho_pcp
post Apr 8 2004, 05:33 AM
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For some reason, if I have extra cash at the end of character creation I always buy a boat or skiff. I have yet to use one yet though, of course; I have yet to have consistent SR-ing other than online post-its.
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Moonstone Spider
post Apr 8 2004, 07:43 PM
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There is a Flaw called Prototype/Used that applies to any used or test vehicle. R3, page 77.

It reduces the Vehicle Markup by .6, which means since most cars have a markup of 1 the car's cost will be 40% of it's normal cost. It gets even better when applied to drones as you can wind up with a markup of .01 on some of those suckers and buy them for a couple of hundred Nuyen.

It gives the vehicle 1d6 random stress points to various systems, which are invisible until the GM decides for them to suddenly manifest (Such as when you're trying to dodge incoming fire under bad conditions.) Once they appear they can be fixed as any other stress point so with a shop and B/R skill you can easily buy cars for half their normal value and have them up to full quality after a while, kindly GMs permitting of course.

It's actually a rather munchy flaw compared to the nasty ones like Lemon or Custom Chassis that can never be repaired, cause considerably worse effects, and are worth about half as much in terms of nuyen value.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Apr 8 2004, 11:02 PM
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Is there an actual line that mandates a minimum markup? I don't remember seeing one.
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blakkie
post Apr 8 2004, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
Is there an actual line that mandates a minimum markup? I don't remember seeing one.

The only stipulation i've seen is that R3 highly suggests limiting it to 2 Flaws for vehicle price reduction.

I always took that the flaws cost reduction to be a multiplier, not an absolute subtraction. So say a vehicle has a base .75 cost multiplier. After factoring in a .6 flaw you'd have a cost multiplier of .75*.6=.45, not .75-.6=.15. Makes a LOT more sense than taking 2 high cost flaws and being PAID money to take a drone. ;)



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sidartha
post Apr 9 2004, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE
Once they appear they can be fixed as any other stress point so with a shop and B/R skill you can easily buy cars for half their normal value and have them up to full quality after a while, kindly GMs permitting of course.


I had to do this IRL not too long ago. Bought a used Suburban and found out that one of the heads was cracked and had to be replaced, took me two months.

QUOTE
It's actually a rather munchy flaw


Cool :P
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Herald of Verjig...
post Apr 9 2004, 01:20 AM
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Ah, the line about minimum mark-up is on page 76, right at the beginning of the quality factors. Indeed, it does prevent the free or "here's 20, take it" vehicles.
Taking the line literally, you also can't take a flaw and round the mark-up back up to .01. If implemented that way, the lowest markup you will be able to get in the rules is .05.
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Talia Invierno
post Apr 14 2004, 01:59 PM
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Btw according to Riggers 3 (p.25), the base cost of the vehicle is not included with lifestyle - only basic maintenance and upkeep.
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Egon
post Apr 14 2004, 07:21 PM
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Run with the best. Run with a Bulldog.

These vans are a great bargain with or with out armor. There has all ways been at least one in any group I have played in and normal its driven by some one that just spends the whopping karma cost for a 2 drive skill. Getting away normal involves opening the back doors and pointing something large and dangerous out. Then ditching and or blowing up the van and taking more discreet ways home.
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