Star Wars: The Old Republic, Also known as the love child of WoW and Mass Effect Options

[CanRay]

From what I understand, it was supposed to spend another year in the oven, but the Publisher pulled it out and served it half-cooked.

[JonathanC]

From what I understand, it was supposed to spend another year in the oven, but the Publisher pulled it out and served it half-cooked.

It was actually supposed to come out a year earlier at first, they were hyping it, then they pushed it back and people were so rabid for it that they had to pull the trigger. The problem with the game isn't really bugs, per se (though there were some of those). As a launch, it was as close to bug-free as I've ever seen.

Design-wise, their auction interface is simply unacceptable in a modern MMO, and it's clear that they were focused so much on the leveling experience that they neglected to make the endgame compelling (in my opinion). Both are fixable problems. WoW is in a vulnerable state, after a poorly-received expansion and Blizzard's focus now split among three active franchises, so I think Bioware has a chance to make this work if they knuckle down.

[Tanegar]

The fact that you don't get your lightsaber until you're about to leave the starting world was jarring to me. I got my lightsaber at level 9, and the very next level (which I got from exploration XP alone, since I left Tython near the threshold) I was picking my advanced class. I got exactly one fight as a proper Jedi Knight before moving on to Sentinel. I think the Jedi prologue should start with your graduation from Padawan and building your lightsaber.

[Thanee]

From my perspective...

The Good:
- Class stories, especially the first chapters, which are pretty epic. The Jedi have the worst starting planet in the game (IMO), but Ord Mantell, the starting planet for Smugglers/Troopers, kind of makes up for it.

Yeah, the Jedi starting planet was a bit boring, but mostly I found the first Chapter (Consular storyline) a little bad (extremely repetitive).

Overall, however, I really liked the storydriven gameplay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The Bad:
- Endgame is poorly designed, IMO. The gear progression is problematic, because while you *want* to be doing hard-mode flashpoints and raids, to get what you need to do those things you have to grind daily quests in one of two places (Ilum and Belsavis), and neither one of those places is particularly fun. In WoW, at least, you could grind for emblems in a variety of instances, and get to practice your grouping skills at the same time.

I can't really say that. I only did a couple Daily runs (and a few more of the two Heroic 2+ missions, which I can both solo with my Sage, though the Lesson Learned was rather hard with the starting 50 level stuff I had) to get the purple Armorings/Mods/Enhancements (which, BTW, you can also get via crafting or in some cases buy off the GTN, so there is no need at all to do the Dailies) before delving into Hardmodes. That is good enough.

The biggest problem is the group-finding right now, I would say. Often, it is hard (at least on Republic side, Empire has more players, of course) to find a group of 4 for those Heroics and Flashpoints.

- UI design is a problem, but a subtle one. You'll mainly notice it when trying to use the Galactic Marketplace (Auction House), or if you get lost on a map.

It could do with some improvements, but it isn't really that bad.

- Crafting is of dubious long-term use. Some crafts are very useful while leveling, but once you hit endgame none of the stuff you can make is of much use, ...

That is only partially true... pretty much all crafts have some items that are very useful for endgame (of course, once you got them all made...).

Biochem, especially, is extremely useful.


The new big Patch (1.2) coming this months also addresses a lot of the crafting problems (hopefully it will work out well), offering lots more endgame stuff to craft and making the Reverse Engineering easier.

...and discovering better patterns requires you to either "disenchant" your own crafted gear endlessly, or (I think) picking up patterns as raid drops.

Yes to both. You can learn better versions of the schematics you can get from your trainer via Reverse Engineering (which also gives back some materials), and there are high-end schematics dropped in Operations, too.

Because of this, the Auction House saw limited use when I played, and it was hard to find stuff there.

I see quite a few things there, especially because of the Augment Slots you get on an item when you critically craft it. The rest of the items ends up on the GTN, naturally, and those are still good items.

If you only ever want the very best, then, of course, you will have to do it yourself, or find someone willing to do it for you.

Some of these problems were scheduled for fixes as of the time that I left the game; perhaps some of these gripes are out of date by now. It's a good game overall, and I still have it installed on my PC. Having hit 50 on the Imperial side I'd love to give Republic a try, but I don't really like playing MMO's alone. If anyone here wants to start up a Republic-side guild, I'd happily give it another go, since the big content patch that they were promising in February should be out by now.

The big content patch is coming soon (march, not february)... among tons of crafting changes, it will introduce more Daily missions, another FP, another Operation, UI improvements (esp. customizable UI), guild banks, and so on, and so on. A LOT of new stuff is coming.

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

The fact that you don't get your lightsaber until you're about to leave the starting world was jarring to me. I got my lightsaber at level 9, and the very next level (which I got from exploration XP alone, since I left Tython near the threshold) I was picking my advanced class. I got exactly one fight as a proper Jedi Knight before moving on to Sentinel. I think the Jedi prologue should start with your graduation from Padawan and building your lightsaber.

Hmm... I think that part was fine, really. The bigger problem I had with that part is, that once you got that great deed done and crafted your very own lightsaber, only 1-2 levels later you toss it into the cabinet to replace it with a better one dropped off some random critter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

... and it's clear that they were focused so much on the leveling experience that they neglected to make the endgame compelling (in my opinion).

There is a ton to do during endgame. From other games I played in the past, this one really had an existing endgame during launch.

It surely is not perfect, but it definitely is there. It does require a working guild, however, as otherwise it will be hard to get Operations groups done and all that.

But it is also clear, that once you are there, you cannot play evening upon evening with the same character, expecting to see as much new stuff as you did during your leveling. That's when you start with another character (with a new class story and new abilities and gameplay), and it is pretty clear to me, that the intent is to play multiple characters through the whole game.

Bye
Thanee

[JonathanC]

Just to clarify: they announced the patch in early February, I believe (late January?), it was always supposed to come out in March.

I was playing the Imperial side, and I didn't see many solo-able 2+ heroic quests at my level, let alone any that rewarded purples. So I was left with grinding dailies on Ilum (which I absolutely hate; it's redundant as an ice planet since Hoth is already there, and it's literally just an empty expanse of ice with a black sky) to get some purple armor mods and weapon mods...never did find a good source for purple level 50 augments or "mod slot" items, and by that point I was just generally disgusted from spending two weeks playing a game that was no longer enjoyable.


The "fun" part of questing in SWTOR is advancing the storyline, so building the early endgame play around repeating non-story quests is just a bad design decision, in my opinion. I think there's a good game in there, the problem is that it disappears when you hit 50 (again, in my opinion).

Given how different our experiences have been though, I'm wondering if some of these problems were unique to my server, or perhaps to playing the Imperial side. It's also worth mentioning that if you were a Consular (the mirror of the Sith Sorcerer), your soloing ability would have been vastly better than mine (I was an Operative/Imperial Agent)

[Thanee]

Just to clarify: they announced the patch in early February, I believe (late January?), it was always supposed to come out in March.

Sorry, misunderstood you then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Here are the current Patch Notes, BTW: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363056

I was playing the Imperial side, and I didn't see many solo-able 2+ heroic quests at my level, let alone any that rewarded purples.

I only know Republic side, of course. There are two Heroic 2+ Missions among the Daily ones (one on Ilum and the other on Belsavis), which are soloable with a Sage Healer (I doubt that any other class can do that). The easiest, of course, is to team up with others (given that there are others who want to join in).

never did find a good source for purple level 50 augments or "mod slot" items, ...

There isn't much, of course. There are the Daily Missions with the Commendations that allow you to buy Armorings. Then there are the two H2+ Missions, that directly grant Mods / Enhancements. And then there are the Crafting Skills... Cybertech makes Armorings / Mods (also level 50 purple ones), and Artifice makes Enhancements. Slicing Missions can yield purple Augmentations (but those are pretty much only found when doing the high-end Slicing Mission Discoveries), the stuff you can put into Augment Slots gained from a critical crafting attempt. The 1.2 Patch will change this, however, and make them craftable.

The "fun" part of questing in SWTOR is advancing the storyline, so building the early endgame play around repeating non-story quests is just a bad design decision, in my opinion. I think there's a good game in there, the problem is that it disappears when you hit 50 (again, in my opinion).

Yeah, it is always a matter of opinion. They do need repeatable stuff, otherwise the players will hit "end" with nothing left to do.

Also, you do not need to do the PvE repeatables. PVP is also an option to get better gear (which is also good enough for the Hardmodes, even though it has a PVP specific bonus, which is of no use in PvE).

Personally, I think that MMOs would benefit from some sort of random mission generator, that creates random missions to do (adding some more variety into the repeatable mix). Kinda like what Diablo does, just on a mission level (i.e. not randomly generated dungeon levels, but randomly generated missions).

Given how different our experiences have been though, I'm wondering if some of these problems were unique to my server, or perhaps to playing the Imperial side. It's also worth mentioning that if you were a Consular (the mirror of the Sith Sorcerer), your soloing ability would have been vastly better than mine (I was an Operative/Imperial Agent)

Absolutely. Sage (and I guess Sorcerer) is likely the best solo class from my experience.

From what I hear, though, it should be easier to find groups on the Imperial side (makes sense, too, as there are more players in general).

And I think that expectations also play a big role in how different persons experience the same thing.

Bye
Thanee

[Tanegar]

I started a Sith Inquisitor, advanced to Sorcerer. I still say the transition from lowly acolyte to full-fledged sorcerer in the space of one level is jarringly abrupt, but I'm really liking the Sorcerer class. Force Lightning is great fun. I'm going for a Lightning/Madness spec. Screw healing, I wanna fry some bitches!

[JonathanC]

There isn't much, of course. There are the Daily Missions with the Commendations that allow you to buy Armorings. Then there are the two H2+ Missions, that directly grant Mods / Enhancements. And then there are the Crafting Skills... Cybertech makes Armorings / Mods (also level 50 purple ones), and Artifice makes Enhancements. Slicing Missions can yield purple Augmentations (but those are pretty much only found when doing the high-end Slicing Mission Discoveries), the stuff you can put into Augment Slots gained from a critical crafting attempt. The 1.2 Patch will change this, however, and make them craftable.

I was maxed in Cybertech, Scavenging, and Underworld Trading. You simply don't get patterns for level 50 armoring or mods; it tops out at 49, and the patterns are green. I spent several weeks trying to reverse-engineer my way into blues. It was ridiculous (and probably contributed to my quitting).


I definitely think it's a worthwhile game, I just wasn't in the mood to level up from 1 again so soon after hitting 50, and I wasn't having fun at 50, so I deactivated my account. I'll probably try raising a Smuggler or a Jedi once the new patch is live. Since I already did an Operative on the Imperial side, I'll be going Gunslinger with the smuggler.

[KarmaInferno]

Absolutely. Sage (and I guess Sorcerer) is likely the best solo class from my experience.

I am finding the heal-commando, with a healer companion, nearly unstoppable unless I'm attempting to take on like a half dozen mobs 6 levels above me.

I've soloed champions 4 levels above me. Takes forever but I can simply out-heal most damage, occasionally stunning the opponent to give myself breathing room, and at that point it's just attrition as my bullets slowly whittle the opponent down.



-k

[Thanee]

I was maxed in Cybertech, Scavenging, and Underworld Trading. You simply don't get patterns for level 50 armoring or mods; it tops out at 49, and the patterns are green. I spent several weeks trying to reverse-engineer my way into blues. It was ridiculous (and probably contributed to my quitting).

I do think they are the same, though, that you can also get from the Daily Missions. I am waiting until they make RE easier (with the upcoming patch) before doing more high-level stuff (otherwise it takes way too many attempts, yeah).

I definitely think it's a worthwhile game, I just wasn't in the mood to level up from 1 again so soon after hitting 50, and I wasn't having fun at 50, so I deactivated my account.

If it's no fun to you it's no fun to you. It's just like that.

Bye
Thanee

[CanRay]

As I've lost most of my friends to this and EVE Online (Somehow), maybe I should see about checking it out.

[Tanegar]

I deleted my Sentinel. In preparation for unlocking my Legacy, I created another Jedi knight and advanced her to Guardian. My Sith Sorcerer (Valarine Kell, as soon as I unlock the ability to give her a last name) and Jedi Guardian (Valarina Kell) are Force-sensitive twin sisters. Valarine was abducted as a young child and sold into slavery in the Empire, eventually being chosen for Sith training, per the Inquisitor storyline. When Valarina's Force sensitivity was revealed in testing, she was taken by the Jedi and trained as a knight.

Now the sisters Kell are perfect reflections of each other: one a master of the sword, the other a master of the Force; one empowered by rage, the other by calm; one an all-consuming darkness, the other an unyielding light.

[Thanee]

I hope your lastname isn't already taken, then, as those legacy names are serverwide unique (i.e. no two accounts can have the same lastname on the same server). You better keep your mind open a bit, in case it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Tanegar]

Anyone else suddenly having stability issues with SWTOR? I can play maybe five to fifteen minutes before getting a BSOD and a hard reboot. Nothing changed in my system between installing SWTOR and now, nor was I having these issues before today.