 Cyborgs Unveiled, The fan guide to cyborgs |
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 Dec 31 2011, 07:53 AM
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#1
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Runner  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589  |
So, as I was busy being bored at work I noticed that SR doesn't really have a decent body for the cyborgs - it kinda jumps from servile manservants to the perilous dangers of awesomeness.
So I went and wrote up several alternative cyborg bodies with conceivable costs and availabilities, plus some rules for starting the game as a cyborg - Cyborgs Unveiled. Please let me know what you think. The question of balance especially concerns me... |
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Dec 31 2011, 09:34 AM
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#2
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
I just asked permission to access the file.
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Dec 31 2011, 11:24 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
Same.
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Dec 31 2011, 01:46 PM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Permission denied. Damned cyborgs! Denying me.
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Dec 31 2011, 04:15 PM
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#5
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Um. Perilous deathbots *are* the only conceivable bodies for cyborgs. The servitors are drones that don't even have CCUs, because that's not what they're for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's like, 'okay, we've just spent billions making this jarhead… let's stick him in a Ford Pinto and let him go free'.
(I'm still totally interested in this, it just struck me as funny. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) |
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Dec 31 2011, 04:54 PM
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#6
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Yeah, Shadowrun simply isn't yet at the stage where popping a brain into a box is anywhere near commonplace. It's an expensive, delicate procedure and as such the only cyborgs running around are going to be experimental elite murderdeathkill machines.
The only way you're going to see more 'mundane' cyborg bodies is if the procedure becomes affordable to the masses and relatively safe. -k |
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Dec 31 2011, 05:07 PM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Dec 31 2011, 11:54 AM)  Yeah, Shadowrun simply isn't yet at the stage where popping a brain into a box is anywhere near commonplace. It's an expensive, delicate procedure and as such the only cyborgs running around are going to be experimental elite. I hope it doesn't reach that stage to be honest. I like some of the transhuman elements of the game but if I wanted to play Eclipse Phase, well I'd play Eclipse Phase. Edit Fixed my damned spelling. |
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Dec 31 2011, 05:54 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
Sorry, folks. Gave everyone access.
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Dec 31 2011, 06:32 PM
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#9
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Why is the Basic Monobe *so* much cheaper? Mimic's not that expensive, right? The Ares Furious is a Body 4 'drone', so it should be much bigger than a 'buff human', AFAIK. I guess the Otomo already really breaks that rule, though… Oh well. Cyborgs: all bets are off! |
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Dec 31 2011, 06:49 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 673 Joined: 9-May 08 Member No.: 15,965 |
QUOTE (Paul @ Dec 31 2011, 06:07 PM) I hope it doesn't reach that stage to be hones. I like some of the transhuman elements of the game but if I wanted to play Eclipse Phase, well I'd play Eclipse Phase. As would I, if it was a bit simpler and didn't make my head hurt. |
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Dec 31 2011, 07:10 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
I dunno, I'm kind of happy things are moving towards that. And not just in the vein of people going pretty much full on cyber; but like, think of AIs and free spirits (possibly e-ghosts?) getting to interact with humanity in "their" world. Which may be a little too happy trippy for canon Shadowrun, but who cares?
Of course, if you haven't had the chance to, there's a really great short bit in the first Ghost in the Shell manga where Kusanagi supervises the construction of a cyborg body, and they discuss the morality and philosophy behind it and "how close are you to human still?" Good stuff. |
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Dec 31 2011, 08:17 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Dec 31 2011, 10:32 PM) Cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Uh, my printing of Arsenal does not list the cost, but I figured the majority of the cost is, as usual, paid for customization and life-like textures, not for the mechanics within. See, for example, Swiss watches - of course you pay for the mechanism, but the cost to make it is incomparable to the costs you pay.Why is the Basic Monobe *so* much cheaper? Mimic's not that expensive, right? QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Dec 31 2011, 10:32 PM) The Ares Furious is a Body 4 'drone', so it should be much bigger than a 'buff human', AFAIK. I guess the Otomo already really breaks that rule, though… Oh well. Cyborgs: all bets are off! I went more with crunch reasoning - Otomo breaks the rule already, plus Strength 4 doesn't sound terribly high, and neither does the armour rating. |
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Dec 31 2011, 08:21 PM
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#13
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (Paul @ Dec 31 2011, 09:07 PM) I hope it doesn't reach that stage to be honest. I like some of the transhuman elements of the game but if I wanted to play Eclipse Phase, well I'd play Eclipse Phase. Well, cyborgs are rare as is, cyborgs that can be used as PCs are rarer still, and it's not like you can juggle sleeves like you can in EP. I just wanted to give the PCs a chance to try out a new role, which often comes deeply integrated into the setting (what with cyborgs only being made by megacorps with delta clinics). |
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Dec 31 2011, 08:30 PM
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#14
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I thought it was in the Compiled Tables? I dunno. Either way, it just seems incredibly cheaper, compared to any other cyborg body.
Yeah, I would be interested in the characters that could use the Quality. I hate seeing the 'escaped secret lab subject' character background. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Dec 31 2011, 08:54 PM
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#15
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
QUOTE (Fatum @ Dec 31 2011, 03:21 PM) I just wanted to give the PCs a chance to try out a new role, which often comes deeply integrated into the setting (what with cyborgs only being made by megacorps with delta clinics). Please don't take my personal preference as judgment that this is bad material. The game can accommodate a variety of play styles, with staggeringly different power levels and incredibly different story lines. I'd say that's good! |
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Dec 31 2011, 08:55 PM
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#16
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 1 2012, 12:30 AM) I thought it was in the Compiled Tables? I dunno. Either way, it just seems incredibly cheaper, compared to any other cyborg body. Nah, it isn't. See, it's cheaper because it has lower stats, kind of a low-grade choice. This was the only more or less viable reason for a low-grade choice to be present for cyborgs at all that I could find; I am, of course, open to suggestions. |
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Dec 31 2011, 09:34 PM
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#17
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Which stats does it have lower? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They're identical to the 24R, 180,000¥ Petite… minus Mimic and Touch Sensors. Compared to the JAXY, yes, but I was just wondering about the Petite. I guess you *could* chalk it all up to luxury pricing.
Aside: does anyone know where the Mimic stats (cost) are? I'm sure I've seen them around here before, but if it's not in Arsenal like it's supposed to be… no clue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Dec 31 2011, 10:33 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 1 2012, 01:34 AM) Which stats does it have lower? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They're identical to the 24R, 180,000¥ Petite… minus Mimic and Touch Sensors. Compared to the JAXY, yes, but I was just wondering about the Petite. I guess you *could* chalk it all up to luxury pricing. It has lower stats than JA-XY, yeah; and yeah, the idea was that Petite and Pin-Up include the luxury price. As I said, it's not the best of ideas, but I'm hard-pressed to find anything better.QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 1 2012, 01:34 AM) Aside: does anyone know where the Mimic stats (cost) are? I'm sure I've seen them around here before, but if it's not in Arsenal like it's supposed to be… no clue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Beats me, either - never had the use for it; and if you go with suggested alternate rule (namely the one that lets cyborgs have implants of their own), you don't even have to use it. |
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Dec 31 2011, 11:56 PM
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#19
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Dec 31 2011, 04:34 PM) Aside: does anyone know where the Mimic stats (cost) are? I'm sure I've seen them around here before, but if it's not in Arsenal like it's supposed to be… no clue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Arsenal Errata. They didn't stat out the cost of maintenance, though - there's mention of bio-paks to refresh the organic components of the system, but no cost for those. -k |
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Jan 1 2012, 01:56 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,801 Joined: 2-September 09 From: Moscow, Russia Member No.: 17,589 |
Aha. Rating x5000Y. Doesn't make the cost difference any more believable.
As to bio-paks - I guess they can just be included into the lifestyle costs, same way as commlink battery recharges and what have you. |
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Jan 1 2012, 03:26 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 732 Joined: 5-April 08 From: Ottawa, Canada Member No.: 15,847 |
This is one thing I liked from the Cyberpunk Chromebook series -- the full conversion borgs, and the body alteration packages. I've been waiting eagerly for the day these would be available in Shadowrun.
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Jan 1 2012, 03:57 PM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 |
As someone asked, why make "average" cyborgs - that's a good question. But there are other specialties than mere deathbot that merit production. One category would be Extreme Environment:
* Space - in the end metahuman bodies don't handle long-term zero-G very well. A cyborg body is an opportunity to have built-in radiation, heat/cold and depressurization protection, too. * Deep-sea - like space, deep oceans are totally hostile environments. A body that can stand ridiculous pressure, attacks by awakened giant squid, thermal vents, lack of air, and changes in pressure, would be useful. * Arctic, Desert - with a totally different techno-metabolism, extreme heat, cold or drought doesn't have to be a problem. * Toxic areas - you could custom-build a cyborg body to simply not care about most toxins. Not needing to breathe, having impermeable "skin" - that's nice. * Extreme Jungle - with all the horrible bugs and diseases in the jungle, the constant humidity and so forth, flesh might just be too vulnerable. |
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Jan 1 2012, 04:07 PM
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#23
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
You don't need to custom-build for toxin immunity. They're made of metal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I do wonder, though, how resilient a CCU actually is against radiation, pressure, etc. You could definitely encase it in various ways.
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Jan 1 2012, 04:33 PM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 1 2012, 12:07 PM) You don't need to custom-build for toxin immunity. They're made of metal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I do wonder, though, how resilient a CCU actually is against radiation, pressure, etc. You could definitely encase it in various ways. Depends on the Toxic. And how many Toxic Critters there are. Some might consider a metal man to be a nice meal.
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Jan 1 2012, 05:34 PM
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#25
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: 27-July 10 Member No.: 18,860 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Dec 31 2011, 07:32 PM) Cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Why is the Basic Monobe *so* much cheaper? Mimic's not that expensive, right? The Ares Furious is a Body 4 'drone', so it should be much bigger than a 'buff human', AFAIK. I guess the Otomo already really breaks that rule, though… Oh well. Cyborgs: all bets are off! I guess they just did not read the rules, when making the Otomo... Well, it is all good, untill you use the modding rules.... |
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