Delta Clinics, Only 20 in the world of 2073? Options

[Stormdrake]

So if there are only twenty delta clinics in the entire world (and most of them are controlled by mega's) how rare should deltaware be on the street? I have always maintained that anyone getting deltaware is going to have extensive files and samples on record some where behind some very nasty matrix security. However, now I am thinking I may have let some players off to easily.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So... Where do you get that Hard Stat From?

Oh, and Delta-Grade 'Ware is is rare as the GM makes it. What works for one table will often not work for another. With your take on Delta-Grade provided above, it seems like it is not all that common at your table.

In the last 20 years of Play, I have had exactly 2 characters that have access to Delta-Clinics (Note that access does not mean they have actual Delta-Grade 'Ware, only one character can boast that... it is so damned expensive, after all). I still play one of them from time to time.

[Stormdrake]

In the corporate Intrigue thread they mention that back in 2nd or 3rd edition the Corporate Download mentions that there are only twelve delta clinics in the world and that only one of them is not controlled by a mega. The twenty was what some of the authors for the book felt would exist in 2073. That was speculation though and not RAW on their part. It did cause me to wonder and post my previous questions.

[Yerameyahu]

Delta is and should be very rare. If a player argues that the Avail stats don't reflect this properly, change the Avail stats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Udoshi]

I would say that the '20 delta clinics' is less an absolute value and more of a 'there are twenty we KNOW about'.
Corps love their secret zombie-creation labs and crap.

Also, if you have the capability to make Betaware(going by the installation difficulties in Augmentation), Deltaware isn't a far leap ahead. Basically, you just need a few world-class doctors and epic tools, instead of one great doctor and a few trained assistants with a hostpital and robotics support.
The rest is just availability of the parts, and customizing it to a patient.

[toturi]

I'd say that getting Delta-grade ware and finding a Delta Clinic are similar but distinct. You need a Delta Clinic to implant Delta-grade ware and finding such a Delta Clinic is much more difficult than a Street Doc. Even a uber-face (with a Pornomancy level dice pool) may still need to spend weeks to find a Delta Clinic when he might find a Street Doc in half a day.

[MK Ultra]

As of 2057 (Cybertechnologies) there are 5 or 6 delta clinics worldwide (though other places are rumored to do delta-work on an irregular basis), Fuchi has 2, one controled by Villiers (in PCC near Durango), one by Nakatomi (Nagano province/Japan), 1 for Aztech (suspected in Tenochtitlan), 1 for SK (Erkrath near Düsseldorf/Germany - relies on a single expert Wei Xiong Chen), 1 is operated by the Tir na nÓg gov (Donegal province/Eire). Transsys Neuronet is also hevily speculated to have one, or at least do delta-work frequently if on an irregular basis.

ca. 2060 (Men and Machine) the number is said to have trippled, though not all of those posses cybermantic capability (5 or 6). All big 10 supposedly have one (maybe excluding Ares and Wuxing).
Aztech has one including cybermancy in the Panama jungles or Tenochtitlan (it was in Panama during the Dragon Heart Trilogy, but may have been moved after the run on it), SK still has the one in Erkrath (still relying on Chen - though my guess would be he´s not the only specialist they have by then), certainly with cm capacity.
There is a joined Ares-UCAS clinic nearing compleation (almost certainly no cybermancy), CATCo has one apparently, MCT as well, both w/o cybermancy, Novatech kept the PCC one, but aparently lost the ability for cybermancy, Renraku inherited the Nakatomi clinic in Nagano, Yamatetsu moved their clinic from japan to russia, they probably posses the ability for cybermancy, but Buttercup does not allow it (Target Wastelands also speculated about a delta clinic aboard the Sibanokuji spacestation - obviously no cybermantic rituals there). Transsys Neuronet has staff for 2 clinics and cybermantic capability, but like Yamatetsu does not use it.
Shiawase is rumored to have one in the Philipins, though that´s doubted dou to the unstable security situation there, nothing is known about Wuxing. Universal Omnitzech has a deltaclinic (probably in Africa), other candidates workin on deltaclinics or have them running are Yakashima/Biogene, Proteus and Phoenix Biotech. The Tir clinic is still in Donegal.
5 independant clinics are rumored in Vencouver and Istanbul (best quality), Swizerland and Chiba/Japan, as well as one capable of cybermancy in London.

In 2070 (Augmentation) they are obviously much more available, but there is little specific information, except that Doc Waggon might be one of the few corps to have secret delta clinics (plural) as well.

To answer the op´s question from my pov, in 2057 delta is basically nonexistant on the streets, unless you get in bed (deep) with one of the corps, its basically s.th. for NPCs (the most nasty ones, only). According to Corp Download (2061), deltaware is not uncommon for Ares Firewatch, Aztech Jaguars probably have delta on a regular basis, too (the book sais 'top-of-the-line'). Novatech elite Black Omega mages have some deltaware. Red Samurai are said to have SOTA ware which may mean delta, too. So I think in 2060 some delta might be on the streets, but very very very rare. 2070 it is certainly not for beginners, still, but a bit more common then before - i´d still restrict it as s.th. special - getting access to a piece (still payed by the PC in most cases) after doing a lot of favours to the right ppl.

[Udoshi]

The status of delta clinics in 2072 is touched upon in Corporate Enclaves. Also runner havens

I KNOW I've seen a snippet of shadowtalk in one of the 4th edition books about "there are only so many x delta clinics in the world, blah blah," with the end being something about "three are open to the public". Finding the quote is proving to be really annoying, though.

Edit: Found it. Aug144. Though its not just Delta clinics being open to the public, but cybermancy capable clinics.


I, for one, think Delta is becoming increasingly less rare in the 15 or so years since it was detailed in Cybertechnology( 2057). Partly due to advancements in science, partly due to proliferation of cyberzombie know-how and advanced nanotechs (which also need high grade labs). I think its still plenty rare, and oh god expensive, but I also think the availability test for delta clinics laid out in Augmentation is fair.
The availability/interval is 24/1 week.
That basically means that nobody but the most well-connected people are going to have a shot at getting some.

[CanRay]

And, of course, not to mention the cost!

[snowRaven]

And, of course, not to mention the cost!

Well, you can always pay for extra dice for the Availability test...

[Paul]

This may or may not be RAW Canon-but I feel no obligation to it. I'll use as many or as few as I'd like.

[Yerameyahu]

I think that rather goes without saying… in that you didn't have to say it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) All of roleplaying is about tweaking the basic setting for the needs of fun.

[Stahlseele]

Wasn't there something about there being 3 or 5 delta clinics alone in ONE PART OF TOKYO?
Chiba i think?

[Ascalaphus]

Wasn't there something about there being 3 or 5 delta clinics alone in ONE PART OF TOKYO?
Chiba i think?

Someone's been reading Neuromancer?

[Stahlseele]

That too.
All 3 Books.
But this is, as of SR4 at least, also canon . .

[snowRaven]

I think that rather goes without saying… in that you didn't have to say it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) All of roleplaying is about tweaking the basic setting for the needs of fun.

Not Rules-lawyering roleplay - that's all about tweaking the fun (usually downwards) for the needs of the setting and RAW (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ryu]

So how much of a doctors time do you need for designing a deltaware implant for an individual? The surgery time is measured in hours, maybe days for multiple implants. How many doctors does the average clinic have?

Then figure out how many users were handled by the Big 10 alone in the 2060-70 period. Let´s give a doctor 50 clients per year, the average clinic 4 docs (lowball for what I call "clinic"), or 20.000 deltaware clients. Now consider who besides mages cares about the difference between beta and delta?