Explaining the genre/setting to younglings Options

[ggodo]

What the hell?! I thought I was the only person in the world to have ever seen Starhunter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I own the DVDs. This is the first I've heard anything about it.

[CanRay]

That's wrong even if they had meant canada *runs* ^^

Dominion Status Democratic Monarchy. With an election system that works. Hey, US, how's yours going with your fancy electronic voting with no paper trail? Yeah, we're still using paper ballots and pencils where you make an "X" in a circle the size of a quarter. Hey, you know, maybe simpler is better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The Beloit College Mindset List for the Class of 2015

*looks at list* *shakes head* Yeah...

GAH! *Lowers Head* Damn I'm old...

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, no, we don't do that paperless vote thing.

[Draco18s]

Wait.

Pogs are still around? I thought they died off, like, 15 years ago.

[CanRay]

Yeah, no, we don't do that paperless vote thing.

Considering Germany and what happens during Non-Rigged Elections, I don't blame you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

...

OK, that was a low blow and I admit it.

[Wakshaani]

Wait.

Pogs are still around? I thought they died off, like, 15 years ago.

That was the point. They used to bug their parentsto go to fast food joints to get them for the, back when they were tots.

[Draco18s]

That was the point. They used to bug their parentsto go to fast food joints to get them for the, back when they were tots.

No, I mean, pogs died when I was still in elementary school and I was class of 2003. I don't see how the kids graduating 8 years after me would have even heard of them, much less bugged their parents to get free ones from fast food joints.

[bibliophile20]

No, I mean, pogs died when I was still in elementary school and I was class of 2003. I don't see how the kids graduating 8 years after me would have even heard of them, much less bugged their parents to get free ones from fast food joints.

Same, but I vaguely recall something about a (brief) resurgence a decade or so back.

[Draco18s]

I do as well, but it was so brief that I barely had time to say, "pogs? those are still around?" and then it died again. As in, by the time I heard of the resurgence it was already declining into obscurity.

[Wakshaani]

It's tricky for me as a Sociologist(ish... it was a minor!) to remember that, at the end of the day, I'm old. (Insert Patton Oswalt bit on music on talk radio) ... I have neices and nephews the same as as most of my RPG group. My sister's the Age of Aquarius, and my dad was born during WWII to parents who toughened up during teh Great Depression.

I got to watch E.T. on opening weekend and played the game on my Atari.

Gotta keep learning.

[sunnyside]

Actually the dramatic cultural shift from the 60s to now has got me thinking I might be able to get a bunch of adventures with an easter egg twist simply by lifting situations from older liturature, muscials, plays etc. You probably wouldn't even have to change the names or events since the teens won't know them.

For example a slumlord hiring the team to deal with a bunch of protestors mooing to protest the Rent. Or a wealthy family wanting the runners to get their son back from the urban tribe he's hanging out with and get him to come home and cut his waist length Hair to something reasonable.

In those sorts of cases their main "opponents" couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. But the police could provide a threat, maybe throw in a twist with a local gang, organized crime, or a paracritter/spirit/urban shaman to keep the combat addicts happy. But mostly the job would require subtlety as their employers don't want to be linked to the events in media or to have an angry son. So the runners might have to infiltrate and crush their spirits through various manipulations and events.


I'm also thinking of an adventure where the runners have to deal with another musical protest by some guitar weilding punk with a silver hand that the corp suspects is a cover for a runner team he's associated with to attempt an extraction of a vital asset.

There's really a plethora of stuff like this now that I think about it. It's almost like free published adventures as coming up with names and descriptions takes up a bunch of my time so I save on that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm also thinking of an adventure where the runners have to deal with another musical protest by some guitar weilding punk with a silver hand that the corp suspects is a cover for a runner team he's associated with to attempt an extraction of a vital asset.

Alt was indead a Vital Asset, right up to the point she became a liability. Too bad for the Corp guys when they figured out she had a different agenda. Too bad Johnny did not understand the issues going in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
I really liked Alt.

[Saint Hallow]

Was it me, or did the characters in CP202 look wwwaaaaayyyyy too hot & over-sexualized? Of course, with the sex implants & 'ware they had, I guess such characters would be the norm huh?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Was it me, or did the characters in CP202 look wwwaaaaayyyyy too hot & over-sexualized? Of course, with the sex implants & 'ware they had, I guess such characters would be the norm huh?

That is normal for the Genre, as well. At least for most of the books that I have read. When Cosmetic Surgery (And Sexual Implants) is available and cheap, everyone who can take advantage of it does.

[sunnyside]

Alt was indead a Vital Asset, right up to the point she became a liability. Too bad for the Corp guys when they figured out she had a different agenda. Too bad Johnny did not understand the issues going in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
I really liked Alt.

See, I'm going to go ahead and guess you're not a teen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Was it me, or did the characters in CP202 look wwwaaaaayyyyy too hot & over-sexualized? Of course, with the sex implants & 'ware they had, I guess such characters would be the norm huh?

Like Tymeaus said, if you've got the money their isn't any reason someone couldn't be beautiful. Above a certain class, if somebody is fat or ugly it's only because they want to be (or age or an accident was just too much for what they can afford).

Now, I think the CP2020 art had that whole "style over substance" thing going on. Meaning that they'd have flesh exposed all over wheras Shadowrun art is much more likely to have people wearing proper armor. Also in SR the artists seem to assume that someone would spend money on wares over cosmetics, wheras in CP2020 they'd assume the opposite.

Finally SR artists have dwarves, Orcs, and Trolls to deal with.

[Saint Hallow]

Cybergeneration mentioned this. If CP2020 had characters with the "adult 'ware & implants", they were bound to have kids (unless they remembered their contraception implants as well). They were always "attitude & style" over "substance" in that world & setting. I thought SR would have a lot of the same, since you have tech that makes personal appearance of any type possible. Add magic, & now "fantasy" takes on a new meaning in how you "live" in the "real world".

It actually mirrors real life. Our pop stars are pretty, slender people. There was an article that compared today's models compared to models from 20 years ago. Huge differences.

Maybe translating/describing SR to the younger generation is easy. Tell them to look at the real world... add more tech, add magic, & that the icons they love now are old & nothing compared to the icons of their children's children.

[kzt]

It actually mirrors real life. Our pop stars are pretty, slender people. There was an article that compared today's models compared to models from 20 years ago. Huge differences.

Yup. I'm reminded of the the trio where the two pretty slender people kicked off the island the fat chick after they decided they were going to be a big success. She was the actual creative genius that wrote most of the the songs that made them the big success AND founded the group. ...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

See, I'm going to go ahead and guess you're not a teen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Have not been a Teen for quite a while now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Like Tymeaus said, if you've got the money their isn't any reason someone couldn't be beautiful. Above a certain class, if somebody is fat or ugly it's only because they want to be (or age or an accident was just too much for what they can afford).

Now, I think the CP2020 art had that whole "style over substance" thing going on. Meaning that they'd have flesh exposed all over wheras Shadowrun art is much more likely to have people wearing proper armor. Also in SR the artists seem to assume that someone would spend money on wares over cosmetics, wheras in CP2020 they'd assume the opposite.

Finally SR artists have dwarves, Orcs, and Trolls to deal with.

The Art is hit or miss for me in Shadowrun, but then, that is nothing new. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[3278]

You should take that as a sign you need to go see and/or read it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That seemed like a reasonable conclusion, so I gave it a shot. Saying too much will certainly get me birched, so I'll stick with saying it wasn't really to my tastes.

If I were going to show someone some media to teach them what cyberpunk was, I'd show them Blade Runner and The Matrix [it was based on Shadowrun; it's the closest thing to a Shadowrun movie you're likely to get]. I'd warn them it wasn't going to be any good and then show them Johnny Mnemonic. If I were going to show someone what stylized professional freelance crime was like, I'd show them Firefly and Oceans 11 and Snatch and Heat and Ronin and whatever other heist/crime I could find. I'd warn them it wasn't going to be any good and then show them Leverage.

But those things aren't Shadowrun. You don't add those things up and get Shadowrun. The best way to experience Shadowrun, from what I've seen, is to pick up the main book and start reading [if you're a reader] or sit down at a table and start playing [if you're a doer]. Our group is made up almost entirely of non-roleplayers, so we've introduced dozens of people to Shadowrun and roleplaying, and our best experiences have been with immersion: just give them Shadowrun, and let them draw their own conclusions, have their own experiences. [A lesson we learn with great difficulty as parents, as well!]

Like, a lot of people like to reminisce at the table with new people. ["Oh, that's nothing! You should have seen this one time when..."] We try to suppress that, because then their perceptions of the game are seen through this lens of someone else's experiences. And I don't mean, like, it's some sort of draconian rule; it's a game, for crying out loud. It's just a goal we have: let them come to it with nothing but themselves. No other movies they've seen, no history of cyberpunk, no Queensrÿche listening assignments. [Although, seriously, can you legally play Shadowrun without having listened to Rage for Order?] Just the main book, if that. [I recommend the 2nd edition main book, but you should really ignore the crazy shit that comes out of my mouth; I've been thinking about a 1st edition game.]

You and I think it's hokey, because we've seen it a dozen times before, but you can do a worse job of introducing new players and non-roleplayers to Shadowrun than to just sit them down at a table and say, "You wake up. You know the alphabet, and how to count. You know what a human being is, and a car, and a toaster. Things beyond that are vague. It's cold where you are, and you can hear gunfire."

One of the best ways to learn the game, although it's time-consuming, is just to make characters. They'll ask so many questions during that process that the world will come out in dribs and drabs, and they'll have something to hold on to as they start playing. They'll understand the system better, and get an idea of the layout of the books. We didn't do this enough, and as a result, our players are, I think, a little scared of our books.

Another excellent introduction is pre-made characters, with archetypical personalities and capabilities, a bare-bones explanation of the setting and how it differs from 2012, and then just start playing. This is what we usually do nowadays, and it seems to work fine. I prefer one of the previous methods, if we have time, but as everyone's gotten older, that's gotten less practical. [During several periods in my life, I've been fortunate enough to play daily. Not so much, anymore.]

Yeah, maybe the end of that little history bit I wrote should be something like, "and then Shadowrun went beyond genre and flavor. You have a cyberlimb and a gun, have some fun and don't think about it ".

The tl;dr version of everything else I've gone on and on about: my recommendation would be that the entirety of your history be something like, "Shadowrun is beyond genre or flavor. You have a cyberlimb and a gun, have some fun and don't think about it." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sunnyside]

They were always "attitude & style" over "substance" in that world & setting. I thought SR would have a lot of the same, since you have tech that makes personal appearance of any type possible. Add magic, & now "fantasy" takes on a new meaning in how you "live" in the "real world".

Like 3278, I, and maybe most everybody else has concluded, part of why SR "works" is that it never even really pretended to bother with attitude and style, much less attitude & style over substance. The flavor stuff is purely optional, and probably something to occupy and amuse GM more than for the players.

CP2020 trying to have idiology, fashion, and style as integral elements of the game was why "Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads" happened.

It actually mirrors real life. Our pop stars are pretty, slender people. There was an article that compared today's models compared to models from 20 years ago. Huge differences.

Maybe translating/describing SR to the younger generation is easy. Tell them to look at the real world... add more tech, add magic, & that the icons they love now are old & nothing compared to the icons of their children's children.

Probably true...but the players are wearing whatever gives the best stats, in drab black, and they won't have spent a nuyen on cosmetics unless they're going the pornamancer route.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. But that's going with the grain.

On the other hand, the anime set isn't the same as the wargamy aspergians typical of the tabletop, and I'm trying to pitch to gals as much as guys.

However what I'm having to deal with now is that the flavor they might be looking for hasn't been present in Shadowrun since first edition with Shadowbeat and the Neo-Anarchist guide. And I imagine those didn't do so well even then, or they wouldn't have stopped making books like that from second edition on. I think I've got a copy of Shadowbeat somewhere, and I recall thinking that the rules were completely unworkable.

This will probably involve houserules and much increased complication in running sessions....erg.

[CanRay]

One advantage to Shadowrun, Orks and Trolls make curvy sexy again!

Orxanne has room for a litter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

EDIT: My characters, OTOH, have very well described clothing. Yeah, black is still the basic colour, but that's because black goes with everything.

Hell, The Accountant From Hell is the blandest character I have, having only a blood-red tie with his black suit and white shirt. He has very nice shoes, however. But he also has different outfits...

[Iduno]

The Beloit College Mindset List for the Class of 2015

A list like this for the class of 2075 would be interesting, and probably useful for getting into the mindset of the characters. Those kids wouldn't remember the night of rage, might barely remember the wired matrix, Dunkie has always been dead...

[Glyph]

CP2020 trying to have idiology, fashion, and style as integral elements of the game was why "Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads" happened.

Probably also why it failed as a game. Whining to your players that they're playing your game "wrong" is not a good way to keep customers.

I think Shadowrun does a fairly good job of presenting an interesting game world, but being flexible enough to support a variety of different game styles.

[CanRay]

Yeah, we have Pink Mohawks, Black Trenchoats, Mirrorshades, Ice Cold... All different playing styles, and they're even shown in-universe!

[Eimi]

One advantage to Shadowrun, Orks and Trolls make curvy sexy again!

Orxanne has room for a litter! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

EDIT: My characters, OTOH, have very well described clothing. Yeah, black is still the basic colour, but that's because black goes with everything.

Hell, The Accountant From Hell is the blandest character I have, having only a blood-red tie with his black suit and white shirt. He has very nice shoes, however. But he also has different outfits...

A good 'plain' suit, worn well, can be far more memorable than the most 'busy' of outfits.