You'll Never Take Me Alive!, what happens when runners get caught? Options

[Paul]

What is the point of playing a game with the plethora of combat options available, yet be happy with a long game restricted to Super Knockout with even heavier GM controls on activities? Plus how could it be fun to be a mage in prison with ones hands bound and vision blocked to keep the character from casting? Or a street sam who gets to spend his time with no arms, and internal cyberware broken or removed as it was all illegal?

Well to me it's like a good action move. The hero doesn't start out super awesome-he gets beat on a little, and then steps up his game and overcomes. That's kind of how I look at it-not exactly but pretty close. I'm not suggesting every single game be centered around this sort of theme-that'd suck. And to me, and this will obviously differ at other tables, it has nothing to do with "GM Controls on activities." (Whatever that is supposed to mean.)

The good news is you're not required to run a game like this. At my table my players don't mind a game where they face a little challenge here and there. I try to keep the variety up-so it's not the same shtick every week-but yeah sometimes you get caught, and sometimes you run out of ammo. And sometimes you even miss, or suck at something. As long as I, as a GM, don't create a world that can't be interacted with or that requires a specific path to interaction I figure everything else is on the table.

[Daylen]

It's like a song. I can hold a note for a long time - I can hold a note forever - but eventually, that's just noise. It's the change you're listening for, the note coming after and the one after that. That's what makes it music.

So its fun to at some point play a mage who is blind, deaf, effectively without hands and with enough background noise being blasted into his ears to make concentration very difficult? I'm not even sure what to have such a character try and do, or what they could do in such a situation.

[Paul]

Why does a handicap have to equate to completely ineffective? M

[CanRay]

So its fun to at some point play a mage who is blind, deaf, effectively without hands and with enough background noise being blasted into his ears to make concentration very difficult? I'm not even sure what to have such a character try and do, or what they could do in such a situation.

Shoe Hand Grenade. Just kick it randomly around and picture what the people are doing as explosions go off around them.

Hopefully you haven't hit the rest of the team and they can help.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Why does a handicap have to equate to completely ineffective? M

Yeah, amazng isn't it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[3278]

So its fun to at some point play a mage who is blind, deaf, effectively without hands and with enough background noise being blasted into his ears to make concentration very difficult? I'm not even sure what to have such a character try and do, or what they could do in such a situation.

I'm not certain where this scenario comes from, but it certainly sounds like a compelling challenge to me. However, there are a variety of less extreme means of restraining a magic user which might grant the player a more interactive experience. You've certainly identified the most problematic character type, but I wouldn't recommend judging the entire concept based on an overly restrictive solution to that one character type.

[The Jake]

With my character, I'm relying on other people getting caught red handed. I'm the face in my group I hire mooks, summon spirits or convince the other PCs to do the dirty work. I don't carry anything on me I don't have a permit for (generally speaking unless its REALLY needed) or will get a slap on the wrist for (BADs in the PCC aren't technically illegal so...). His fake SIN is pretty tight and I plan on getting it to a much higher rating (rating 6+) very soon. The idea is I'm playing this character like a street smart punk and he knows busting him for anything is gonna be a stretch.

If I got done for anything, I have a highly skilled, very well connected (Connection 4) shark lawyer contact, reminiscent of Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad, I can call upon. Worst case, he comes from a Pueblo tribe that is very anti-tech and out in the middle of the desert - away from Denver. Good luck trying to find him there.

- J.

[CanRay]

No offense, but I'd prefer a high loyalty Walter White as a Contact.

[The Jake]

No offense, but I'd prefer a high loyalty Walter White as a Contact.

I have a bound Force 9 Air Spirit for those situations.

PS: How can you not want a lawyer like this in Shadowrun? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

[CanRay]

Correction, I want to MAKE Walter White as a character.

But that would require me PLAYING, now, wouldn't it?

[The Jake]

Correction, I want to MAKE Walter White as a character.

But that would require me PLAYING, now, wouldn't it?

Still not with a group?? Not even online?

Just get Saul as an NPC lawyer contact, whatever you do.

"Better call Saul!"

- J.

[CanRay]

Still not with a group?? Not even online?

- J.

Can't play online. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

"1-800-1-GO-FREE."

[PoliteMan]

The short answer is Plot happens. Shadowrunners are useful and you don't have to pay captive ones...

This.

I would advise corps in your game to use policies which encourage runners to surrender peacefully, rather than "Plan D" all over their lobby/headquarters/secret research facility. Yes, corps can do anything they want, that (probably) doesn't mean they going to be pointlessly abusive instead of focusing on profits. Interrogated and Leas'd, but otherwise fairly unmolested, runners are free labor.

[Paul]

Can't play online. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Really? I see you have 11,000 plus posts. I guess I fail to see why that means you can't play online. This isn't meant to be snarky-I just don't see how someone with your pretty obvious amount of free time can't spare a few minutes to play online.

[The Jake]

Really? I see you have 11,000 plus posts. I guess I fail to see why that means you can't play online. This isn't meant to be snarky-I just don't see how someone with your pretty obvious amount of free time can't spare a few minutes to play online.

Like.

- J.

[CanRay]

Really? I see you have 11,000 plus posts. I guess I fail to see why that means you can't play online. This isn't meant to be snarky-I just don't see how someone with your pretty obvious amount of free time can't spare a few minutes to play online.

There's more to RPing online than time and stupid comments.

[3278]

Well, what do you need? What's missing? You're crazy about the game, and are constantly agonizing over not being able to play - although I can't figure out why you'd not just do it offline - so what's keeping you from playing online?

[CanRay]

Skill, ability, social graces, reliability...

[bibliophile20]

Skill, ability, social graces, reliability...

I think your lateral thinking skills and knowledge of the system would more than compensate... but then again, I've got a bunch of newbies to the system, and I've almost killed them a number of times now due to bad tactics on their part. (Last session: PC triggers booby-trapped gun emplacement on rooftop. LEDs on the case of grenades nearby light up, and two dozen grenades speak up in unison. "Hi! I'm a high explosive grenade. I'll be going off in Three... Two... One..." PC jumps off roof at "Two..." and falls five stories onto van below, ends up with full physical track and one box short of full overflow. Player's expression when the grenades spoke up was priceless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) )

[Paul]

Skill, ability, social graces, reliability...

Seriously? That's what you're selling?

[thorya]

I think your lateral thinking skills and knowledge of the system would more than compensate... but then again, I've got a bunch of newbies to the system, and I've almost killed them a number of times now due to bad tactics on their part. (Last session: PC triggers booby-trapped gun emplacement on rooftop. LEDs on the case of grenades nearby light up, and two dozen grenades speak up in unison. "Hi! I'm a high explosive grenade. I'll be going off in Three... Two... One..." PC jumps off roof at "Two..." and falls five stories onto van below, ends up with full physical track and one box short of full overflow. Player's expression when the grenades spoke up was priceless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif) )

I think I'm extraordinarily lucky to have smart players. Of course, my current batch of players are super cautious. I think we spend at least twice as much time on leg work as anything else. If they're going to kidnap a target, they'll know his schedule and security better than he does before they make a move (and want to know all of those details, just hand waving "you know his route" isn't good enough). And even when he gets wise to his driver having been switched out, he doesn't realize that there is also an invisible mage in the passenger seat with a gun trained on him and that the apparent driver isn't even controlling the car, but is there simply to look the part so threatening the driver isn't even going to get him where he would rather go.

[3278]

Skill, ability, social graces, reliability...

Right, but I've been playing every week or two on average for 23 years, so that can't be it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It's settled, I'm just going to have to move somewhere outside of Grand Rapids MB, and drive down for a weekly game.

[CanRay]

Seriously? That's what you're selling?

Reliability is the major issue right now.

[Daylen]

I'm not certain where this scenario comes from, but it certainly sounds like a compelling challenge to me. However, there are a variety of less extreme means of restraining a magic user which might grant the player a more interactive experience. You've certainly identified the most problematic character type, but I wouldn't recommend judging the entire concept based on an overly restrictive solution to that one character type.

Try reading Magic in the Shadows under the section titled The Law, page 11 and 12 in my book. Prison is not nice to mages with RAW. It covers the "magemask".

Magemask: "a plastic hood that fits over the prisoner's head, completely cutting off sight. A gag-tube prevents the magician from speaking but allows him to breathe normally. The mask also contains a white-noise generator that creates sufficient static to impose a +6 TN penalty on any mental actions"
It also states that: "The magemask is used in conjuction with mundane restraining devices such as handcuffs and even straighjackets"
And that was just for short term imprisonment otherwise known as jail. For prison or "long-term imprisonment most municipalities use drugs or simsense loops... install datajacks to make the simsense feed more direct... use drug treatments or radical surgery to permanently remove a magical criminal's ability to use magic... Magic Attribute to 0 and often leave the subject with permanent mental or physical disability to boot."

Gee that sounds like fun for characters with magic.

[Paul]

Gee that sounds like fun for characters with magic.

Everyone comes to the table for different reasons. But that said, people seem very intent on honing in on the worst possible case scenarios.