Encryption and stealth, quick matrix questions Options

[lunavoco]

Further attempts to understand the matrix rules. sigh.

1) I want to hack into a johnson's PAN. I'm pretty sure that it exists, but running in Hidden mode. SR4A 230 gives me the process for Detect Hidden Node, E. Warfare + Scan (4). If's he's actively running a stealth program does the test change? I could have sworn his stealth affected this in some way...

2) If two members of a team communicate using an encryption and they have differeing Encryption Program ratings, is signal encrypted at the lowest of the two for the purposes of my decryption attempts?

[Draco18s]

Further attempts to understand the matrix rules. sigh.

1) I want to hack into a johnson's PAN. I'm pretty sure that it exists, but running in Hidden mode. SR4A 230 gives me the process for Detect Hidden Node, E. Warfare + Scan (4). If's he's actively running a stealth program does the test change? I could have sworn his stealth affected this in some way...

2) If two members of a team communicate using an encryption and they have differeing Encryption Program ratings, is signal encrypted at the lowest of the two for the purposes of my decryption attempts?

1) No, his stealth program doesn't help.
Also, if you know WHERE his pan is (say, "within 3 feet of his body") you get a bonus

2) Lowest.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

2) I would say highest, or the rating of the one who is initiating the encrypted comm.

Encrypt Action (Encrypt Program)
You encrypt a file, set of files, node, or communication link. You also choose a passcode that you or another user can use to decrypt the file. You may encrypt multiple files together into a single archive file. You
may also attach a data bomb (p. 233) to an encrypted file.

There is no statement that both sides of the communication need an encrypt program.

[lunavoco]

Ok, followup Question: If the johnson's got his signal encrypted, do i need to decrypt before i innitiate a hack on the fly attempt? Or is my understanding off and you only need to Decrypt when spoofing (ie, not actually moving yourself into his comlink?)

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

No, you dont need to decrypt his signal to hack on the fly, unless he has encrypted his whole comlink. You would need to decrypt if you want to perform a "intercept wireless traffic" action.

[Draco18s]

You would need to decrypt if you want to perform a "intercept wireless traffic" action.

Which is what he's trying to do:

If two members of a team communicate using an encryption...

[lunavoco]

The follow up question was pointg back to the 1) Johnson scenario.

Last Question: do I have to complete the Encrypt action once for every communication out of my 'link, or is there a way I can just toggle it on similar to modern Wi-Fi encryptions?

Wait, you can encrypt your whole comlink? Is there any reason why a reasonably paranoid person wouldn't encrypt the whole thing and use it noramlly?

[bobbaganoosh]

As long as you don't forget the key used to decrypt it, there isn't really any reason for a "reasonably paranoid" person not to encrypt an entire commlink, as well as all of the peripheral devices (goggles, smartgun, ultrawideband radar, etc).

[Aerospider]

Wouldn't encrypting your signal make life a bit difficult? How would you tell the autocab what the passcode is? Or the barman? Or the beat cop checking SINs of passer-bys?

[Draco18s]

Wouldn't encrypting your signal make life a bit difficult? How would you tell the autocab what the passcode is? Or the barman? Or the beat cop checking SINs of passer-bys?

Simultaneous encrypted communication versus unencrypted communication.

Computers in the real world do this all the time.

[lunavoco]

Wouldn't encrypting your signal make life a bit difficult? How would you tell the autocab what the passcode is? Or the barman? Or the beat cop checking SINs of passer-bys?

That's where i was going with that, but i wasn't able to articulate it.

So, run a secondary comlink with you sin-of-the-day on it and Encrypt your personal one?

[Lantzer]

Note that if he is running stealth, I think you have to detect his encryption before you can decode it. check out the rules for the stealth program and matrix perception. It can really slow down your hacking attempt (compared to not having stealth).

[Draco18s]

Note that if he is running stealth, I think you have to detect his encryption before you can decode it. check out the rules for the stealth program and matrix perception. It can really slow down your hacking attempt (compared to not having stealth).

That is not how that works. Stealth (program) hides your matrix icon.

[Aerospider]

That is not how that works. Stealth (program) hides your matrix icon.

This. It doesn't even make you invisible, just innocuous (though it amounts to the same).

[Fortinbras]

2) If two members of a team communicate using an encryption and they have differeing Encryption Program ratings, is signal encrypted at the lowest of the two for the purposes of my decryption attempts?

As a GM I would rule that once you hit the Target Number of the lowest Encryption you could see everything that user sends, but not what the higher users sends until you reach his TN.
I don't know if this is represented by RAW, but getting only half a conversation for a few turns is a cool narrative trick and, I feel, adds to the fun of the game and is therefore superior to interpretations of the RAW.
But that's just me.

[Lantzer]

That is not how that works. Stealth (program) hides your matrix icon.

Not from what I see here in 4A under matrix perception.

To analyse a matrix icon, node, program, etc, you have to make matrix perceptiion test (with Analyze icon/node)
The hits you get determine how much information you can get on that icon with that test.
A target icon with a stealth program reduces your hits with an opposed test.
You need this information to tell you if the icon is ecrypted, or has a data bomb, or even whether the icon represents a user or a program or a node (there's a list of what each net hit can tell you).

You can't deal with an icon's defenses until you've identified them. For example, flip to the next page and look up the "disarm data bomb" paragraph. If you can't see it you can't disarm it.
This is why I suggest that a stealth program is useful to slow down a hacking attempt. It will take the hacker more time to get all the hits he needs to get all the information he needs to crack your security. Without a stealth progam, the hacker can probably get all the hits he needs on the first test, because there is no opposed roll.


Also, (what you mentioned) if your net perception hits are zero, you lose the icon in the data traffic.

[Midas]

As a GM I would rule that once you hit the Target Number of the lowest Encryption you could see everything that user sends, but not what the higher users sends until you reach his TN.
I don't know if this is represented by RAW, but getting only half a conversation for a few turns is a cool narrative trick and, I feel, adds to the fun of the game and is therefore superior to interpretations of the RAW.
But that's just me.

Makes perfect sense to me. Communications from the lower rating encryption should be easier to decrypt.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Makes perfect sense to me. Communications from the lower rating encryption should be easier to decrypt.

The problem is that in Signals Communications and encryption, you cannot communicate between communications units if you are using two seperate encryption shcemes (At least not from my experience). Both ends must be running the same scheme.

In this case, I would rate the Encrtyption at the lowest of the two on the subscription. They must be using equivalent (the same) Encryption to encrypt their communications signals. It is really not that big of an issue, though, as Encryption is a Common Use Program, and is relatively cheap. *shrug*
Though I am pretty sure this is not really addressed in the books, it only makes a bit of sense; at least from my experience running an encrypted Tactical Network in the Marine Corps (While I was in the First Gulf War). Been a Lot of years, though, and things may have changed a bit since then.

[Yerameyahu]

It's important not to use reality with any of the matrix rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) By the crazy rules, it seems to be that one side has the program, and the other side has the password. If they happen to both be doing that in opposite directions, it doesn't change things.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's important not to use reality with any of the matrix rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) By the crazy rules, it seems to be that one side has the program, and the other side has the password. If they happen to both be doing that in opposite directions, it doesn't change things.

Yeah, I guess... Though Aesthetically, I woulod still err on the Lower of the two Encryption Programs. *Shrug*

[Draco18s]

Not from what I see here in 4A under matrix perception.

To analyse a matrix icon, node, program, etc, you have to make matrix perceptiion test (with Analyze icon/node)
The hits you get determine how much information you can get on that icon with that test.
A target icon with a stealth program reduces your hits with an opposed test.
You need this information to tell you if the icon is ecrypted, or has a data bomb, or even whether the icon represents a user or a program or a node (there's a list of what each net hit can tell you).

You can't deal with an icon's defenses until you've identified them. For example, flip to the next page and look up the "disarm data bomb" paragraph. If you can't see it you can't disarm it.
This is why I suggest that a stealth program is useful to slow down a hacking attempt. It will take the hacker more time to get all the hits he needs to get all the information he needs to crack your security. Without a stealth progam, the hacker can probably get all the hits he needs on the first test, because there is no opposed roll.


Also, (what you mentioned) if your net perception hits are zero, you lose the icon in the data traffic.

None of that deals with intercepting wireless traffic, which I'd like to point out, are RADIO WAVES, and can't be stealthed.

[Fortinbras]

1) I want to hack into a johnson's PAN. I'm pretty sure that it exists, but running in Hidden mode. SR4A 230 gives me the process for Detect Hidden Node, E. Warfare + Scan (4). If's he's actively running a stealth program does the test change? I could have sworn his stealth affected this in some way...

No, but a non-standard wireless link does.
Stealth is more of a hacker thing while detecting nodes and intercepting signals is more of a rigger thing.
While I don't find any precedent for it in the rules, you're welcome to add Stealth to the test if you want to. I wouldn't recommend it, though. It would make finding an enemy node once combat has begun a more time consuming process so your hacker feels useless for a few IPs while everybody else is slinging spells and shooting baddies.

Yeah, I guess... Though Aesthetically, I woulod still err on the Lower of the two Encryption Programs. *Shrug*

I can see that. I think I'd just say you can detect one side of the conversation because of the wibbly-wobbley, hacky-wackey thing someone invented with ASIST or something like that. As I said, narrative flavour I dig; nothing more.

[Lantzer]

None of that deals with intercepting wireless traffic, which I'd like to point out, are RADIO WAVES, and can't be stealthed.

True.

Sorry, apparently I'm confused. I thought the discussion was about hacking a hidden node.

Stealth does absolutely nothing about finding a hidden node. That's entirely up to the EW+Scan pool vs a static difficulty.
Stealth comes in on the next step - hacking said icon. Just because you located the transmitter, doesn't mean you can pick out the icon and hack it quickly.

If intercepting signals is your thing, yes, you have a 2-3 step process (in which stealth does nothing because you aren't interacting with anything - its all passive):
1) If its a hidden node's transmissions, you first need to detect/isolate the signal by locating the hidden node (otherwise it's hidden in the EM background). A non-hidden node's signals are automatically detected, as they are loudly proclaiming "here I am!" to the world.
2) This detected signal has to be Decrypted if it is encrypted. Fairly straightforward - it's out there for anyone to look at, once found. It's easy to see if it's garbled. The nice thing, as previously mentioned here, is the other end of the traffic is using the same encryption.
3) Now it can be Captured.

Interception lets you listen in on a node's traffic, but won't let you hack or spoof without analysing the icon on one end or the other of the traffic. You need the valid access ID.