Free Spirit Questions, Im building a free spirit character and need help Options

[Boomer1985]

I've got a couple of questions concerning free spirits.

1) Can free spirits bond foci so they can make their magic more powerful?

i know they would be limited to not using the non conjuring or weapon based foci but i cant see anywhere where they would not be allowed to.

2) Since all free spirits are magicians what about sustaining spells, on pg 107 of street magic Free Spirit Services it says a free spirit can "perform any service that can be asked of a bound spirit" and since this is the case could they perfom the services for themselves thus sustaining the spells for free.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I've got a couple of questions concerning free spirits.

2) Since all free spirits are magicians what about sustaining spells, on pg 107 of street magic Free Spirit Services it says a free spirit can "perform any service that can be asked of a bound spirit" and since this is the case could they perfom the services for themselves thus sustaining the spells for free.

It is not a service if they are sustaining spells upon themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It is only a service if they sustain another magician's spells for them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

I've got a couple of questions concerning free spirits.

1) Can free spirits bond foci so they can make their magic more powerful?

i know they would be limited to not using the non conjuring or weapon based foci but i cant see anywhere where they would not be allowed to.

Afb (on my new tablet at a gaming store (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ), but in the beginning part of the rules for free spirits in Street Magic it says no.

[Boomer1985]

It is not a service if they are sustaining spells upon themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It is only a service if they sustain another magician's spells for them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thank you for the quick replies gent not the answers i want lol but they do sound correct.

but tymeaus does it actually say it has to be another mages spells since a free spirit cant summon spirits itself that could be the loophole cause it can have up to force powers sustained at once and since some spirits can cast that is a service that spirit provides. Or some other noconvulted way of putting it. =)

The foci i just missed =)

[Yerameyahu]

They can sustain their own spells as any magician can. They can also perform bound spirit services, for whatever payment or motivation they choose to negotiate.

[pbangarth]

I've got a couple of questions concerning free spirits.

1) Can free spirits bond foci so they can make their magic more powerful?

i know they would be limited to not using the non conjuring or weapon based foci but i cant see anywhere where they would not be allowed to.

2) Since all free spirits are magicians what about sustaining spells, on pg 107 of street magic Free Spirit Services it says a free spirit can "perform any service that can be asked of a bound spirit" and since this is the case could they perfom the services for themselves thus sustaining the spells for free.

1) Runner's Companion, page 92, under Free Spirit Magic: "Spirits may not bond foci."

2) The only reference I can find that even skirts this issue is in SR4A, page 186, under Spirit Services: "A service is a single continuous task the summoner demands or requests from a spirit." It's a 'task' and therefore sounds like an 'action' to me, one that excludes other actions. At best, it should still affect the Free Spirit like regular sustaining of a spell. That's the way I play my two FSPCs. Otherwise, your FSPC would be able to 'sustain' a huge number of spells for free. That's just broken.

[Yerameyahu]

And illogical: a normal spirit is penalized for sustaining a mage's spell. I have no idea how he got from 'a spirit can perform X service' to '… for free/no penalty'.

[pbangarth]

And illogical: a normal spirit is penalized for sustaining a mage's spell. I have no idea how he got from 'a spirit can perform X service' to '… for free/no penalty'.

The penalty is for spell binding, which can maintain the spell for days. Simple sustaining for a number of rounds equal to the spirit's Force does not have any penalty. I still maintain that a) it is an action, and therefore precludes other actions, or b) at the very least it carries the -2 sustaining penalty.

[Yerameyahu]

Really? Weird. I don't think I ever heard of maintaining a spell for that short a time (a handful of seconds!). I certainly wasn't using that in my comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thanks.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Really? Weird. I don't think I ever heard of maintaining a spell for that short a time (a handful of seconds!). I certainly wasn't using that in my comparison. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Thanks.

Indeed, A Spirit can maintain a Spell for another Magician (Spell Sustaining, not Spell Binding) for a Number of rounds equal to its Force, at the cost of a Service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

When would you ever need such a tiny amount of time? What a waste of a service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) And there's no reason they shouldn't take the -2 for those several seconds. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Irion]

@Yerameyahu
Depends on the situation I would guess...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

When would you ever need such a tiny amount of time? What a waste of a service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) And there's no reason they shouldn't take the -2 for those several seconds. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I have seen many a mage use a service for a spell that was absolutely crucial to be maintained, but would hamper the Caster to do so. It happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[pbangarth]

Some examples of a short-term suspension:

- Invisibility to get across an open space. Let the spirit sustain it so you don't get the -2 to your infiltration test.

- Aim spell to help your buddy the sniper take out one of two opponents. You as the mage take out the other without a -2 to your spellcasting.

- Increase [drain stat] sustained while you cast a spell or summon/bind a spirit.

- Ignite spell. While the spirit sustains it to burn the target, you do something else.

- many, many more.

[Yerameyahu]

*shrug* I guess if that -2 really mattered, it'd be a possible (but massively wasteful) use of a service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's such a tiny penalty to begin with, and the other services a spirit can do are so much better.

[pbangarth]

*shrug* I guess if that -2 really mattered, it'd be a possible (but massively wasteful) use of a service. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's such a tiny penalty to begin with, and the other services a spirit can do are so much better.

If it were only one relatively unimportant test, yes, I see your point. In the middle of a run, when shit is raining down or the next step is critical, it may very well be worth it.

[Yerameyahu]

Either way, I feel I've learned something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It's still weird to me that the spirit doesn't take a -2 for those 18 seconds, but oh well. Clearly, a FSPC can't use this to any advantage, or the GM will make… 'adjustments'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[pbangarth]

As it turns out, I happened to be looking through the FAQ document for SR4A *ducks the hurled excrement* for something else, and found the following:

"Do the bound spirit services Aid Sorcery or Spell Sustaining take an action to use, or do they happen instantly?
In both cases, the magician must take the appropriate Complex Action to cast the spell, but taking aid from the spirit or passing on the task of sustaining requires no action be spent by either the magician or the spirit; the aid is simply funneled from the spirit through the magician's link to it."

So according to the FAQ, a bound spirit appears not to be disadvantaged by receiving the task of sustaining the spell. The sustaining itself is not changed, though, it is still a "task", and still would appear to have its effect. It would seem, therefore, that the spirit could do something else without penalty in the round that it receives the task of sustaining, but once it takes over that task, it has to pay the -2 penalty. For the question of the OP, the FAQ suggests therefore that a FSPC would not be able to sustain its own spells for free.

[Neraph]

There's also the issue of having a FSPC give favors to its group mates. At the very least I'd have them do an Opposed Negotiations Test, if not a Binding Test. Favors are powerful - a spirit wouldn't just give them away.

[pbangarth]

Far be it from any of us humans to understand what it is a spirit would think is an appropriate thing to do. That's part of why I am enjoying playing a FSPC. Over a decade putting up with postmodern doublespeak telling anthropologists and archaeologists how silly it is to try to understand the "Other", and I get to play not one, but two! I am having a great time trying to be truly alien. Beats me what that is!

However, if a FSPC should actually choose to undertake an endeavour with some mortals, actually helping the others in order to help the team seems not out of the question. And there is enough in the fluff (oohh, love that alliteration) to suggest a free spirit can do just about anything just to see what it feels like.

[bobbaganoosh]

A FSPC should be able to give favors, which would otherwise be services, to group mates as long as the player can give a very good RP reason for it.

[Yerameyahu]

I wouldn't have even thought that was in question; character can do whatever they can do. The problem, to me, is that there obviously must be drawbacks or costs (even just action costs) for these functions. The issue is basically that FSPCs are unplayably underspecified at every turn. Alas.

[snowRaven]

I have seen many a mage use a service for a spell that was absolutely crucial to be maintained, but would hamper the Caster to do so. It happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, quite often at my table. Combat rarely last beyond a few combat turns anyway.

[Neraph]

Yeah, quite often at my table. Combat rarely last beyond a few combat turns anyway.

I'm in a game right now and I can hardly wait to get a bound spirit. I've built my guy to be operational running about 4 spells but I really want to be able to shove them off on a spirit for a few CT. As the Internet Meme goes... Soon.