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> Chummer Character Generator, Thread #2
Nebular
post Mar 18 2012, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowWalker @ Mar 17 2012, 10:44 AM) *
When dealing with possession based traditions, how do you replace materialization with possession/inhabitation in the spirit character?

Er... good question! I'll add a checkbox the Select Metatype window when creating a Spirit to show they're being summoned by a Possess-based Tradition user which will replace Materialization with Possession in the next update.
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ShadowWalker
post Mar 18 2012, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (Nebular @ Mar 18 2012, 09:07 AM) *
Er... good question! I'll add a checkbox the Select Metatype window when creating a Spirit to show they're being summoned by a Possess-based Tradition user which will replace Materialization with Possession in the next update.

Another question, how to you add a power back after it's been deleted.
I deleted Materialization thinking maybe that's what I needed to do, and there was no way to add it back.
I was thinking that the add powers should list all optional powers not added as well as all standard powers no in the list.
Could also have it so that if materialization and possession are missing have them both listed in the powers list.
Once one is added remove the other from the list.
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Nebular
post Mar 18 2012, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowWalker @ Mar 18 2012, 10:47 AM) *
Another question, how to you add a power back after it's been deleted.
I deleted Materialization thinking maybe that's what I needed to do, and there was no way to add it back.
I was thinking that the add powers should list all optional powers not added as well as all standard powers no in the list.
Could also have it so that if materialization and possession are missing have them both listed in the powers list.
Once one is added remove the other from the list.

Can do.
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The Wrestling Tr...
post Mar 20 2012, 02:59 PM
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Could you make an entry in the "unarmed weapon" section for normal fists?
Would be very usefull for adepts that want to see how much damage they do with their adept powers and normal fists without "hardliner gloves" since they are classified as weapons.
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Nebular
post Mar 20 2012, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Mar 20 2012, 08:59 AM) *
Could you make an entry in the "unarmed weapon" section for normal fists?
Would be very usefull for adepts that want to see how much damage they do with their adept powers and normal fists without "hardliner gloves" since they are classified as weapons.

Yup, this will be in the next update. I'm going to remove the default Unarmed Attack item that is printed with each character and replace it with the new Unarmed Attack Weapon that will be in the updated Weapons data file so that characters can add/remove it as desired. By default, all new characters will come with the Unarmed Combat Weapon automatically given to them. Existing characters will just need to manually add the Unarmed Attack Weapon if they want it.

EDIT: I'll probably upload the next update this evening.
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Tashiro
post Mar 20 2012, 03:51 PM
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I was trying to make a Free Spirit, and it said I had four slots for choosing Powers. When I went to choose any power, it gave me an error. :\
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Nebular
post Mar 20 2012, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (Tashiro @ Mar 20 2012, 09:51 AM) *
I was trying to make a Free Spirit, and it said I had four slots for choosing Powers. When I went to choose any power, it gave me an error. :\

Ack. The window is confused over whether you're using the Critter Free Spirit or the Metatype Free Spirit (rather than just asking if the character if it's a Critter or not) and is looking for the point cost for Optional Powers in the wrong place. I'll have this fixed in tonight's update.
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The Wrestling Tr...
post Mar 20 2012, 06:38 PM
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Martial Arts (Boxing) doesn't add the DV modifier per rating, don't know if it applies for other martial arts aswell.
Could you also add a unarmed attack "weapon" against barriers? Just for the adepts with smashing blow so we don't need to calculate it everytime (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Nebular
post Mar 20 2012, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (The Wrestling Troll @ Mar 20 2012, 12:38 PM) *
Martial Arts (Boxing) doesn't add the DV modifier per rating, don't know if it applies for other martial arts aswell.
Could you also add a unarmed attack "weapon" against barriers? Just for the adepts with smashing blow so we don't need to calculate it everytime (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Boxing's +1 Unarmed DV Advantage was automaticlaly fixed as part of moving Unarmed Attack over to the Weapons Category. (It's not +1 per Rating though - it's +1 per time you add that particular Advantage. Martial Arts themselves don't grant any bonuses - they only let you choose particular Advantages which in turn grant bonuses.) I'll add an Unarmed Attack (Smashing Blow) Weapon as well.
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The Wrestling Tr...
post Mar 20 2012, 07:07 PM
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Thanks a lot!

Never seen a Dev of a piece of software react so quickly to bug reports (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Nebular
post Mar 20 2012, 09:18 PM
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Build 345
  • possessed Living Vessels now change their Alias to [Vessel's Alias] (Possessed)
  • possessed Inanimate Vessels now change their Alias to [Vessel Type] (Possessed)
  • added a checkbox to the Select Metatype window to replace Materialization with Possession or Inhabitation when creating a Spirit
  • Select Critter Power window now shows any Critter Powers that the Critter comes with by default that have been deleted
  • Select Critter Power window now includes Possession and Inhabitation if the Critter's Manifestation Critter Power has been removed
  • printout no longer automatically adds an Unarmed Attack Weapon to the character (replaced by the new Unarmed Attack Weapon that can be added and removed)
  • new characters automatically receive the new Unarmed Attack Weapon that can be added and removed as desired
  • fixed an issue where attempting to add Critter Powers to the non-Critter Free Spirit would throw an error
New Strings
  • Checkbox_Metatype_PossessionTradition
  • Tip_Metatype_PossessionTradition
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ShadowWalker
post Mar 20 2012, 10:51 PM
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When I create a Force 5 Spirit of Man, might happen with other spirit types not checked yet, I end up with -410 BP.
When I have possession in the powers list I don't see anything in the menu items to select what it's possessing.
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Nebular
post Mar 20 2012, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowWalker @ Mar 20 2012, 04:51 PM) *
When I create a Force 5 Spirit of Man, might happen with other spirit types not checked yet, I end up with -410 BP.
When I have possession in the powers list I don't see anything in the menu items to select what it's possessing.

This is how Critters have always worked. They don't follow the standard character BP and creation rules, so they just show how many BP they would have consumed if they were a standard character with a 0 BP Metatype to give you an idea as to their approximate BP value. It's the non-existent Metatype BP cost that really screws it up. (They can have any number of Attributes at their Metatype maximum, Metatype BP cost of 0 with all of those Attributes, Powers, and Qualities is bonkers from a character standpoint but perfectly acceptable for Critters, etc.)

In order to Possess/Inhabit something, the Critter needs to be in Career Mode. The logic being that Spirits don't possess something while they're still being formed. Since there is no actual link between the Spirit, Vessel, and merged character, the possessed character would never be updated to reflect the erratic changes a Spirit is likely to go through in Create Mode. I have the how-to page for Possession and Inhabitation on the wiki.
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ShadowWalker
post Mar 21 2012, 12:33 AM
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QUOTE (Nebular @ Mar 20 2012, 06:57 PM) *
This is how Critters have always worked. They don't follow the standard character BP and creation rules, so they just show how many BP they would have consumed if they were a standard character with a 0 BP Metatype to give you an idea as to their approximate BP value. It's the non-existent Metatype BP cost that really screws it up. (They can have any number of Attributes at their Metatype maximum, Metatype BP cost of 0 with all of those Attributes, Powers, and Qualities is bonkers from a character standpoint but perfectly acceptable for Critters, etc.)

In order to Possess/Inhabit something, the Critter needs to be in Career Mode. The logic being that Spirits don't possess something while they're still being formed. Since there is no actual link between the Spirit, Vessel, and merged character, the possessed character would never be updated to reflect the erratic changes a Spirit is likely to go through in Create Mode. I have the how-to page for Possession and Inhabitation on the wiki.


cool, hadn't taken it to career mode yet.
Thanks.
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taeksosin
post Mar 21 2012, 03:43 AM
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QUOTE (Nebular @ Mar 9 2012, 05:20 PM) *
I can add a house rule of the Metatype Attribute one.

You can only change the variables (multipliers) for Karma costs, not the actual formula itself. I'd need to know which ones you'd want to change and how before I can really determine if it's possible and how much work it would involve.


Regarding that Nebular, here's the thread that I'm pulling values from.

Udoshi's Technomancer Houserules: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=36511

QUOTE (Udoshi)
Living Persona And Bionode Changes:
Signal is based now based Two-Thirds Resonance, Round up, instead of half.

All persona stats start at Half Resonance, round down, plus Half the relevant Attribute, rounded up. No persona stat may be greater than resonance.

Complex Forms can only go as high as 1.5xresonance, round down, instead of 2x.

The starting limit on complex forms is now 3x Software, instead of Logic x 2.

technomancers now have a built in Biofeedback Filter equal to their Resonance, and it does not count against the limit on complex forms. Additionally, once play begins it is treated like any other complex form

Complex forms now have a flat Cost at character generation, and by karma, as well as for options. The cost depends on character creation method:
in BP gen:
Instead, each complex form has a flat cost of 3BP(like mage, and about double what a hacker pays for a tricked out program) per form, and the form starts with a rating equal to your Resonance.

Under karma and karmagen, complex forms now ALSO have a flat cost.
the Revised Karma value for complex forms is 2 karma per level, with no adjustments based on the rating.
Clarification: This means rating 1 is 2 karma. Rating 2 is two more karma, or 4. Rating 3 is two more karma, 6 total, etcetera etcetera.

Sprite Have Standardized Skills
Every sprite now has the following skills equal to their rating: Electronic Warfare, hacking, Computer, Data Search. For complex forms, they have Analyze and Browse. The programs that use these skills are still dependent on sprite type. (note that they do not have Software. Or, if they did, they would have a specific restriction against using threading)

Additionally, they have Cybercombat and an Attack program at half their rating, round down, unless they are a sprite type that already has better. All sprites can fight, but some are really BAD at it. They also have Edit, at half rating, round down.

Unrated Complex Forms don't cost against the starting complex form limit.
Control Rig is available as an unrated complex form
Expert System is also available as an unrated complex form, mostly for TMs that have Biowires.
Anything a hacker can run, a technomancer can learn as a CF. (borrowed slightly from the FAQ)


Some gratuitous copy-pasta, I know, but I at least cut it into slightly bite sized chunks. If these things are feasible, fantastic. If not, I'll just make my TM loving player make his characters by hand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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crazymykl
post Mar 21 2012, 04:38 AM
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Smashing Blow is doing only twice the base DV, ignoring modifiers (Martial arts, bone lacing, critical strike, &c.). It is my understanding that these would apply, but would not be doubled. If your reading of this rule differs, it could always be a house rule.

Also, perhaps improvements should be groupable, and toggleable as groups. It would make mages' lives a bit easier.

EDIT: The weapon focus modification for weapons still caps at rating 6, not the new cap of 18.

That being said, amazing job with everything; love the new shiny features.
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Tashiro
post Mar 21 2012, 06:38 AM
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Awesome fix on spirits, but I noticed the Free Spirit PC doesn't get to choose between materialize and possession traditions - and when you select the type for Free Spirit 'critters', it doesn't give them either power either. I also noticed when you select a spirit critter (free or otherwise) it doesn't tell you the limit on how many powers it can have like it used to. Is this intentional?
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Nebular
post Mar 21 2012, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 20 2012, 10:38 PM) *
Smashing Blow is doing only twice the base DV, ignoring modifiers (Martial arts, bone lacing, critical strike, &c.). It is my understanding that these would apply, but would not be doubled. If your reading of this rule differs, it could always be a house rule.

Also, perhaps improvements should be groupable, and toggleable as groups. It would make mages' lives a bit easier.

EDIT: The weapon focus modification for weapons still caps at rating 6, not the new cap of 18.

That being said, amazing job with everything; love the new shiny features.

Weapon Focus is now capped at 18. If your character already had a Weapon Focus, you'll need to remove it and re-add it so it picks up the new maximum Rating information.

I'll see what I can do about grouping Improvements. I know it's doable, they're just... slightly more complicated than most of the other stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

To me, the wording between Smashing Blow and the rules for breaking barries makes it sound as though everything should be doubled before making the Test. SR4 166 under Destroying Barries: The purcpoase of the attack test is to generate extra hits to add to the Damage Value. If the character got no hits, then only apply the base Damage Value., and SM 179 under Smashing Blow Multiply his base DV by 2 when performing an unarmed strike on a barrier or other static structure. So, to me at least, it sounds like the base damage is the amount of damage the character does to the barrier if they scored 0 Hits on the Test, which is then doubled from Smashing Blow. So if you had STR 4 and +1 DV from the Boxing Advantage (standard Unarmed attack for 3), you would double this number and use that as your base against a barrier (effectively 6). If you get any hits on the Test to strike the barrier, you would deal 6 + Hits damage since the Hits are not part of the base DV.
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Nebular
post Mar 21 2012, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Tashiro @ Mar 21 2012, 12:38 AM) *
Awesome fix on spirits, but I noticed the Free Spirit PC doesn't get to choose between materialize and possession traditions - and when you select the type for Free Spirit 'critters', it doesn't give them either power either. I also noticed when you select a spirit critter (free or otherwise) it doesn't tell you the limit on how many powers it can have like it used to. Is this intentional?

Ah! I completely missed the free Materialization or Possession bit from Runner's Companion. I've updated the Metatypes file to include Materialization and Possession as optional Powers for them with a cost of 0 since they get one of them for free. I believe the option of selecting Possession/Inhabitation for the Critter version of them isn't working because it's trying to replace the Manifestation Power that they don't have. You can still manually add Materialization or Possession to them on the Critter Powers tab though.

Not entirely sure why I don't have the number of Powers there for Critter Spirits. I'll have this for the next update.
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Nebular
post Mar 21 2012, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (taeksosin @ Mar 20 2012, 09:43 PM) *
Regarding that Nebular, here's the thread that I'm pulling values from.

Udoshi's Technomancer Houserules: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=36511

Some gratuitous copy-pasta, I know, but I at least cut it into slightly bite sized chunks. If these things are feasible, fantastic. If not, I'll just make my TM loving player make his characters by hand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'll take a look through 'em over the next little while and see if they're doable. From a quick glance, some of these seem to be fairly significant deviations from the standard rules.
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crazymykl
post Mar 21 2012, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Nebular @ Mar 21 2012, 09:09 AM) *
Weapon Focus is now capped at 18. If your character already had a Weapon Focus, you'll need to remove it and re-add it so it picks up the new maximum Rating information.

I'll see what I can do about grouping Improvements. I know it's doable, they're just... slightly more complicated than most of the other stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

To me, the wording between Smashing Blow and the rules for breaking barries makes it sound as though everything should be doubled before making the Test. SR4 166 under Destroying Barries: The purcpoase of the attack test is to generate extra hits to add to the Damage Value. If the character got no hits, then only apply the base Damage Value., and SM 179 under Smashing Blow Multiply his base DV by 2 when performing an unarmed strike on a barrier or other static structure. So, to me at least, it sounds like the base damage is the amount of damage the character does to the barrier if they scored 0 Hits on the Test, which is then doubled from Smashing Blow. So if you had STR 4 and +1 DV from the Boxing Advantage (standard Unarmed attack for 3), you would double this number and use that as your base against a barrier (effectively 6). If you get any hits on the Test to strike the barrier, you would deal 6 + Hits damage since the Hits are not part of the base DV.


Weapon Foci of up to force 18 can be correctly added, but when adding the weapon modification to the associate melee weapon I cannot exceed rating 6.

The issue is that not all the mods are added for smashing blow, my prime runner adept with 15P base unarmed only does 12S with it.
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Nebular
post Mar 21 2012, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 21 2012, 08:47 AM) *
Weapon Foci of up to force 18 can be correctly added, but when adding the weapon modification to the associate melee weapon I cannot exceed rating 6.

The issue is that not all the mods are added for smashing blow, my prime runner adept with 15P base unarmed only does 12S with it.

Gah! Sorry, I was thinking Gear and forgot all about the Weapon Mod for it! I've updated the Weapon file to correct this.

Sor for Smashing Blow, should it instead be calculated as ((STR/2) * 2) + modifiers? Currently it's calculating at ((STR/2) + modifiers * 2). So a character with STR 4 and +1 DV from Boxing would do 3S with his normal Unarmed Attack and 5S with his Smashing Blow?
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Valnar
post Mar 21 2012, 05:22 PM
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Not sure whether this is a bug or if it's just me wrongly interpreting some of the rules, but shouldn't "improved ability (Spellcasting)" also increase the limit of spells you can buy at char gen? After all the power DOES say that it actually increases the ability's rating, so it's not just a dice pool modifier or anything.
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Nebular
post Mar 21 2012, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Valnar @ Mar 21 2012, 11:22 AM) *
Not sure whether this is a bug or if it's just me wrongly interpreting some of the rules, but shouldn't "improved ability (Spellcasting)" also increase the limit of spells you can buy at char gen? After all the power DOES say that it actually increases the ability's rating, so it's not just a dice pool modifier or anything.

You're right. It's currently just checking the Skill's base Rating and not including any Rating Modifiers it might get from other sources. I'll have this fixed in the next update.
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crazymykl
post Mar 21 2012, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (Nebular @ Mar 21 2012, 09:53 AM) *
Sor for Smashing Blow, should it instead be calculated as ((STR/2) * 2) + modifiers? Currently it's calculating at ((STR/2) + modifiers * 2). So a character with STR 4 and +1 DV from Boxing would do 3S with his normal Unarmed Attack and 5S with his Smashing Blow?


I believe the bonus for Critical Strike is not being applied to Smashing Blow. This makes up for the difference.

EDIT: Other than that the current method is correct.
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