Chummer Character Generator, Thread #2 Options

[Leoric]

In the spell tab, could you make the Drain resistance pool take into account the selected spell? If the spell is "limited" by a fetish, it should add +2 to drain resistance pool.

[Neko Asakami]

Took me a few minutes to get what was happening there (my starting point of Magic from Adept was being lowered to 0 by the Essence loss), but I got it! Thank you!

[Nebular]

Free Spirit PCs and Power Points
Free Spirits have a Power Point total equal to its Edge. It can also get Power Points through initiation.
For some reason, when a Free Spirit increases Edge in Chummer, it doesn't get the additional Power Points it should. :\

I can't seem to reproduce this behaviour using either the Free Spirit Metatype or Free Spirit Critter using the current version in both Create and Career Modes. Do you have a save file you could send me where this is happening?

[Nebular]

In the spell tab, could you make the Drain resistance pool take into account the selected spell? If the spell is "limited" by a fetish, it should add +2 to drain resistance pool.

Absolutely. I'll have this in the next update.

[Nemo]

Hello Nebular,

the Cyber Saftey Firearm Accessor from Augmentation p.40/41 is missing.

[SpellBinder]

Hello Nebular,

the Cyber Saftey Firearm Accessor from Augmentation p.40/41 is missing.

The one that also makes a non-wireless connection to a smartgun? You'll wanna make sure the "Augmentation" book is enabled, and search for "Cyber Safety" in the Cyberware and Bioware tab via "Add Cyberware". It's in the "Bodyware" category.

[Nemo]

The one that also makes a non-wireless connection to a smartgun? You'll wanna make sure the "Augmentation" book is enabled, and search for "Cyber Safety" in the Cyberware and Bioware tab via "Add Cyberware". It's in the "Bodyware" category.

The Cyber-Implant is there, but the corrosponding Weapon-Modifikation is missing. You need both Components for effect.

[SpellBinder]

Yeah, found it.

[CeeJay]

Hi Nebular,

I'm still having problems adding program options to Autosofts. Maybe I'm just to dumb to puzzle out how chummer works...

Anyway, here's what I did:
- I bought Targeting autosoft rating 3 in tab gear in creation mode. The autosoft comes with Copy Protection and Registration program options and has a capacity of 0 (0 remaining). When I buy for instance the Ergonomic option as a plugin the capacity goes to 0 (-1 remaining) and I get an error message when I want to save in career mode.
- The same happens when I buy Targeting rating 3 hacked. Now the autosoft comes without any options but still has 0 capacity and goes to 0 (-1 remaining) when I add an option.

So, how do I add a program option to an autosoft?

Oh and one other minor thing. When I buy Targeting autosoft as a drone plugin in tab vehicles, I can't specifiy which weapon type the autosoft is for. That's also the case for Maneuver autosofts.

-CJ

[SpellBinder]

Ergonomic isn't allowed to Autosofts, and also isn't necessary as Autosofts don't count towards your running programs on a node, nor are limited by a node's ratings (means Optimization is useless). The only options you'd really want to add to an Autosoft are Crashguard and Viral Resistance.

Chummer also doesn't appear to track the number of options you can add to Autosofts at all. Tested, but didn't get any error when saving with a funky Autosoft in a drone.

It's also odd in the Targeting Autosoft in that if you add it in the gear section first you're prompted for a value, but not if you directly add it to a vehicle. If you move the program from the vehicle to your gear inventory, you'll be prompted for a value. Then you can just move it back to that vehicle and the value will carry over.

[CeeJay]

... and also isn't necessary as Autosofts don't count towards your running programs on a node, nor are limited by a node's ratings (means Optimization is useless)...

???
Source for that?

-CJ

[ShadowWalker]

It's also odd in the Targeting Autosoft in that if you add it in the gear section first you're prompted for a value, but not if you directly add it to a vehicle. If you move the program from the vehicle to your gear inventory, you'll be prompted for a value. Then you can just move it back to that vehicle and the value will carry over.

That must be new behaviour as I've added Targeting to vehicles before and it's asked me for a value. Not done it recently though.

[mister__joshua]

This could just be me being stupid but here's my question.

When creating a character I had purchased one weapon and one vehicle.
After buying my SIN I tried to purchase a fake license for the vehicle. I didn't want one for the gun as it isn't gonna be carried around regularly. When I purchased the fake license it automatically set the value to be the name of the gun, and I couldn't find a way to change it. If I purchased multiple fake licenses they all came out being for the same gun. Is there a way to change this?

Cheers

[CeeJay]

When you buy a fake license the pop-up box suggests restricted gear you have already bought, in your case the pistol. Most likely the vehicle isn't restricted and therefore isn't in the list. But that doesn't matter at all as you can simply delete the suggestion and fill in your own text.

-CJ

[mister__joshua]

When you buy a fake license the pop-up box suggests restricted gear you have already bought, in your case the pistol. Most likely the vehicle isn't restricted and therefore isn't in the list. But that doesn't matter at all as you can simply delete the suggestion and fill in your own text.

-CJ

Ah, cheers. Mine didn't sound like that so I've tested it. It is a niche case I'll admit.

Bug: When buying a fake license, if the character only has 1 piece of restricted gear the license automatically creates itself for that item and doesn't allow a manual text entry.

[SpellBinder]

???
Source for that?

-CJ

More like sources.

Unwired, page 114, Ergonomic: Listed allowed programs are Common & Hacking only. The Unwired errata does not change this.
SR4a, 246: "Autosofts are specialized programs that assist Pilot programs in undertaking tasks that their basic Pilot programming does not cover. ..."
Unwired, 112: "Autosofts are specialized programs that expand options and capabilities of Pilot programs. ..." It's also only under Agent Autosofts, but "... these subroutines are adaptive add-ons ..."
SR4a, 232 to 234 lists programs, with an additional note again about processor limits. Note that Autosofts are listed on 246 are a category of their own, and there's no mention about processor limit.
Unwired, 111: New programs are listed. Again, note that Autosofts are listed separately on 112 to 113. No mention about processor limits either.

And an example:
Arsenal, 117-118: The Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly is a drone with a default device rating of 3 and Pilot of 3, yet has Targeting (Close Combat) 4 no options attached to the autosoft. There has been no errata to say the Autosoft should be reduce to 3 in any way, or that it is optimized in any way, shape, or form. (This is a reference for Optimization being useless for autosofts). Oh, note that the Arsenal errata changes the type of Targeting Autosoft, not it's rating.

I've read through the books several times trying to figure if Autosofts impact (and are impacted by) an agent/drone the same way other software does, and haven't found anything reliable to say it does while there's more to suggest they don't. All I can find in the way of programs that'll impact a node's attributes besides the Common Use and Hacking programs are Agents/IC. Now if Ergonomic were to list Autosofts as something to be added, the Dragonfly had Optimized Targeting, or any mention at all that running too many Autosofts can degrade performance, then I'd believe it. As I see it, it's like Autosofts are to Agents/Pilots as plug-ins are to browsers; little, nearly inconsequential programs that enhances the core program.

[SpellBinder]

That must be new behaviour as I've added Targeting to vehicles before and it's asked me for a value. Not done it recently though.

Yeah, I know it's worked before but now it doesn't. Can't trace back to when that was, unfortunately. At least there's a workaround to use as a temporary fix.

[Nebular]

Chummer also doesn't appear to track the number of options you can add to Autosofts at all. Tested, but didn't get any error when saving with a funky Autosoft in a drone.

It's also odd in the Targeting Autosoft in that if you add it in the gear section first you're prompted for a value, but not if you directly add it to a vehicle. If you move the program from the vehicle to your gear inventory, you'll be prompted for a value. Then you can just move it back to that vehicle and the value will carry over.

I'll take a look at the Program Options limit. I thought for sure I had added that in, but it's entirely possible that I didn't.

I'll have the Vehicle bit fixed in the next update. The problem was that if you added something like a Hot Sim to a Vehicle, the character was receiving the Improvement, so I stopped that which also stopped it from asking for text values.

Thanks for addressing some of the questions that have come up as well! Despite being on vacation, I've been stupidly busy talking to recruiters and potential employers in an effort to move back to Calgary, looking for potential places to live, getting things cleaned up to move, and so on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I've been trying to keep up with everything here but it's been tough and I may have missed some things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) I'll hopefully have the next update available a little later this evening.

[SpellBinder]

NP. I figure that there are those, like me, who appreciate a fast response.

[Nebular]

Build 380

• added support for <selectweapon /> to the Improvement Manager which asks the character to select one of the Weapons (or enter text if being applied to a Vehicle)
• print window (when open) automatically refreshes when the character is modified in Create Mode
• Weapon printout XML now includes <ammoslot1 />, <ammoslot2 />, <ammoslot3 />, and <ammoslot4 /> to show which Ammo is loaded in each Ammo slot
• Weapon printout XML now correctly looks for Ammo anywhere on the character/Vehicle
• characters that are built with unlimited BP/Karma and have the Character can spend any number of points on Nuyen House Rule enabled are no longer forced to having 0 points in Nuyen
• Limited Spells now include their +2 DV bonus in their displayed DV when selected
• fixed an issue where canceling a Skill Specialization for a Grouped Skill in Career Mode then re-entering it would cause the Skill Group to remain intact and the Specialization to cost 0 Karma
• Gear that require a value to be selected now correctly ask for this information when added to a Vehicle
• Complex Forms now enforce the number of Program Options they can have

New Strings

• Message_ConntAddComplexFormOptionLimit

[CeeJay]

More like sources.

Unwired, page 114, Ergonomic: Listed allowed programs are Common & Hacking only. The Unwired errata does not change this.
SR4a, 246: "Autosofts are specialized programs that assist Pilot programs in undertaking tasks that their basic Pilot programming does not cover. ..."
Unwired, 112: "Autosofts are specialized programs that expand options and capabilities of Pilot programs. ..." It's also only under Agent Autosofts, but "... these subroutines are adaptive add-ons ..."
SR4a, 232 to 234 lists programs, with an additional note again about processor limits. Note that Autosofts are listed on 246 are a category of their own, and there's no mention about processor limit.
Unwired, 111: New programs are listed. Again, note that Autosofts are listed separately on 112 to 113. No mention about processor limits either.

And an example:
Arsenal, 117-118: The Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly is a drone with a default device rating of 3 and Pilot of 3, yet has Targeting (Close Combat) 4 no options attached to the autosoft. There has been no errata to say the Autosoft should be reduce to 3 in any way, or that it is optimized in any way, shape, or form. (This is a reference for Optimization being useless for autosofts). Oh, note that the Arsenal errata changes the type of Targeting Autosoft, not it's rating.

I've read through the books several times trying to figure if Autosofts impact (and are impacted by) an agent/drone the same way other software does, and haven't found anything reliable to say it does while there's more to suggest they don't. All I can find in the way of programs that'll impact a node's attributes besides the Common Use and Hacking programs are Agents/IC. Now if Ergonomic were to list Autosofts as something to be added, the Dragonfly had Optimized Targeting, or any mention at all that running too many Autosofts can degrade performance, then I'd believe it. As I see it, it's like Autosofts are to Agents/Pilots as plug-ins are to browsers; little, nearly inconsequential programs that enhances the core program.

Okay, thanks. I see where you are coming from. Basically, it's a lack of concrete information about the behaviour of program types beside Common Use, Hacking and Agents with regard to impact on response and system. Following your logic, I could load and run every Autosoft in existence without ever reducing a drone's response... My point of view until now was, that every running program has an impact on response regardless of its type. So this includes running tacnets, sensor softs, autosofts and even lingua softs.
But your right of course, that the point of Ergonomic option for Autosofts is moot, since this is explicitely not allowed.

I will see what my GM says about your approach...

-CJ

[Hellfire]

...

I've read through the books several times trying to figure if Autosofts impact (and are impacted by) an agent/drone the same way other software does, and haven't found anything reliable to say it does while there's more to suggest they don't. All I can find in the way of programs that'll impact a node's attributes besides the Common Use and Hacking programs are Agents/IC. Now if Ergonomic were to list Autosofts as something to be added, the Dragonfly had Optimized Targeting, or any mention at all that running too many Autosofts can degrade performance, then I'd believe it. As I see it, it's like Autosofts are to Agents/Pilots as plug-ins are to browsers; little, nearly inconsequential programs that enhances the core program.

There is one reference in the FAQ on the official SR4 website from catalyst:

"Do “flavor” programs like Wallspace, Virtual Person, etc., affect Response?
No. Programs that aren’t given a rating take up no appreciable space and little to no memory to operate, and thus do not impact your Response rating."

this allows the conclusion that every program that has a rating does indeed reduce the performance of the device (response) when running. However having a response of 0 does not prevent you from running any more programs:

also from FAQ:
"Does a reduction in Response from running more programs then the System rating also result in a reduction in System?
No. The System is limited by the base Response rating; if the processor limit (p.222, SR4A) is reached, the Response is temporarily reduced but the System rating is unaffected."

this would therefore still lead to the conclusion that you may run all the autosoft, linguasoft etc. you want on you comlink as long as you are not involved in cybercombat that is completely irrelevant for the comlink/device performance, as the only time response is important is during cybercombat.

[Hellfire]

detected bug:

when trying to add weapon accessory with the "add&more" button the program shows an error:

Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

adding the accessory with the "OK" button works perfectly however.

best regards
Hellfire

[Hellfire]

Okay, thanks. I see where you are coming from. Basically, it's a lack of concrete information about the behaviour of program types beside Common Use, Hacking and Agents with regard to impact on response and system. Following your logic, I could load and run every Autosoft in existence without ever reducing a drone's response... My point of view until now was, that every running program has an impact on response regardless of its type. So this includes running tacnets, sensor softs, autosofts and even lingua softs.
But your right of course, that the point of Ergonomic option for Autosofts is moot, since this is explicitely not allowed.

I will see what my GM says about your approach...

-CJ

see FAQ:
Does the maximum program rating limited by the System rating apply to Firewall?
No; System does not limit the ratings of Firewall since it is a Matrix Attribute. Agents, Common Use, Hacking, and all other types of programs running on the device are limited by the System rating.

also the cyberspace dragonfly may be a security drone with a device rating of 4, but what is most likely: Catalyst has (again) made an error. Where?... it is your choice (or your GMs)

[CeeJay]

Aaaand here's another little thing I just recognized about drones in chummer that doesn't sound right with me:

When I buy a drone (let's say a Doberman) the stat block reads System: 3 ... Pilot 3 etc.
Looks like chumer thinks these are two different entities. I can also increase the System rating of a drone indepent from it's pilot, which is also not correct.

For reference, here's the entry from SR4a:

PILOT PROGRAMS
Drones, vehicles, and some other (semi-)autonomous devices have a special System program called a Pilot program. Similar to an agent’s Pilot program, Pilot programs are a special type of OS featuring semiautonomous decision-making algorithms and special programming specific to the device on which it is installed. Pilot is for devices that must be able to assess situations, make decisions, adapt, and possibly even function independently of a user, sometimes for extended periods.
The higher the Pilot rating, the “smarter” it is. A Pilot program is basically a System program with extra features, and so is used whenever the drone’s System rating would be. It also stands for a drone’s “Mental attributes” when called for (usually Intuition and Logic, and sometimes Willpower).

So the pilot essentially is the drone's system. Drones do not have a separate system rating.

-CJ