T-birds, How practical... Options

[SpellBinder]

I peeked through Rigger 3 and looked up some of our contemporary fighters. It's about the same, it seems (note jets in Rigger 3 are listed at 10 liters per kilometer), though our current fighters carry more fuel now than in R3.

[kzt]

Well, an F/A-18F has a ferry range of 3300 km on 16,750 liters of fuel, which is about 5 l/km. The T-birds have a max range of 375 km on their 7500 liters of fuel. And jet fuel in SR is not cheap.

[The Jake]

According to Spy Games (pg 16) T-birds are quite common in Denver, apparently because the sector governments didn't want their own smugglers shot down.

Relevant paragraph from Spy Games:

[ Spoiler ]

Of course, no discussion of air travel in Denver would be complete without a mention of the mighty thunderbird. The t-bird is not, of course, the craft of the powerful executives or highlevel politicians, but even though they don't fly it, that doesn't mean they don't use it. Everyone knows how popular t-birds are among smugglers, and for a time there were people agitating for a shoot-on-sight law for any t-birds that took to the skies in the area. The thing is, while the various sectors don't like people smuggling things into their territory, they also tend to have their own smuggling operations that they care about. They might get to down some of their rivals if a t-bird bounty was enacted, but they'd also lose some of their own craft. To forestall this, sector governments started finding more legitimate uses for the t-bird. They promoted the use of them in aerial sports, encouraged small shipments of goods to be transported from sector to sector with them, and found other uses. The eventual effect was that you could no longer see a t-bird in the sky and assume it was a smuggler.

Useful to know given we're playing in Denver. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

[CanRay]

Useful to know given we're playing in Denver. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

Things to do in Denver before you're dead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[ShadowDragon8685]

Not every VTOL vehicle is a T-bird (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The only jet VTOL I've found in Arsenal is the Gulfstream Luxe V.


That said... Man, does anybody miss the vehicle creation rules? I want to see shit like the BEE aircraft from DEHR. That should totally be somewhere in Shadowrun.

[kzt]

That said... Man, does anybody miss the vehicle creation rules? I want to see shit like the BEE aircraft from DEHR. That should totally be somewhere in Shadowrun.

They never did work right. Just make it up.

[ShadowDragon8685]

They never did work right. Just make it up.

All right. What do you think?


Federated-Boeing Bee
Developed in secret in Federated-Boeing's skunkworks facility between government contracts, the Bee receives its name from its project code: Bumblebee. A vehicle not quite like any other, details of the Bee were carefully leaked to generate interest without giving any competitors enough information to rush a competing project into production before the big reveal. Though this marketing strategy backfired in terms of FB's ability to give the vehicle a better name, it certainly worked in terms of generating interest!

The Bee marries a short-bodied, sliding-door aircraft with a utility profile similar to that of utility helicopters with a tilt-wing design, but the Bee is no rotorcraft. The miracle of the Bee is in its engines: ducted vector-thrust jets and unparalleled fuel economy produce an aircraft capable of both high-speed transoceanic flight and short-range VTOL/hovering operation. The designers of the Bee set out to create a jack-of-all-trades that performed beautifully in any role that might be reasonably asked of it, and they succeeded. The Bee's new, hot, and pretty expensive, with a features list a mile long.

Numbers in parenthesis represent the Bee whilst hovering and loitering.

Handling: 0 (+0)
Acceleration: 30/150 (15/50)
Speed: 700 (150*)
Pilot: 3
Body: 18
Armor: 8
Sensor: 3
Availability: 20
Cost: 1,200,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

*The Bee cannot hover at faster than this rate. Accelerating beyond its maximum hovering speed is tantamount to shifting to forward flight.

Standard Upgrades: Additional Fuel Tank x1, Amenities(1), Enhanced Image Screens (2) Improved Economy, Improved Take-Off and Landing (Level 2), Interior Cameras, Life Support (Level 2), Passenger Protection (Rating 4), Rigger Cocoon (Enhanced) (3), Satellite Communication, Self-Repair.

(1) In keeping with the Bee's multirole design, the Amenities level can be swapped out in the space of an hour's work by ground crew (or two hour's work to install all the luxury geegaws that corporate bigwigs usually insist upon.) The standard, factory amenities run to soundproofing, full wireless connectivity, and comfortable leather bench-seats facing one another front-and-back with five-point crash harnesses, and can range from a cargo floor to a luxury flight suite for four.

(2) In keeping with the Project Bumblebee's directional imperative to 'bring the wow factor,' the interior of the Bee features no screens whatsoever. As such, all displays in the craft, from the entertainment unit in the back for use on long flights to the pilot's heads-up displays, assuming she's not actively rigging the bee, are full holographic. The default user-interface color scheme is a warm amber, but it is of course fully customizable, either by the end-user, or by sending FB a scheme of requirements and having them installed that way at the factory.

(3) One of the problems that FB decided to address when constructing the Bee is the dichotomy between rigged vehicles and vehicles being controlled by a metahuman pilot who was not jumped in. Few solutions have been universally satisfactory: a Rigger in a standard pilot's seat is woefully exposed in the event of danger or dumpshock, while a vehicle which replaces the pilot's controls with a Rigger cocoon is impossible to pilot by any means other than a rigger. A vehicle which features both standard pilot seating and a rigger cocoon is usually wasting space, though of course anyone can be put in the cocoon for transit. FB solved this by building the entire cockpit to the specifications of an Enhanced Rigger cocoon, whilst leaving it large enough and roomy enough for a pilot used to operating in cramped quarters to operate the Bee manually. This turned out to be surprisingly simple and easier than expected, thanks to technology licensed from DocWagon, and FB has promised this innovation of a 'Rigger Cockpit' will be showing up on future products.

[kzt]

1.2 mil for something capable of trans oceanic flight seems crazy low. But it fits given the G5 price. Oh, and iiirc, one of the bugs in Rigger 3 construction rules was that you couldn't crate an aircraft that could fly trans-ocean.

[ShadowDragon8685]

1.2 mil for something capable of trans oceanic flight seems crazy low. But it fits given the G5 price. Oh, and iiirc, one of the bugs in Rigger 3 construction rules was that you couldn't crate an aircraft that could fly trans-ocean.

It fits in around the price range of the Gulfstream Luxe V. Given that the Gulfstream Luxe V is, well, a Gulfstream and hence, I presume, undoubtedly capable of transoceanic flight, it seems reasonable.

I mean, sure, I could jack all the prices up to somewhere around that of modern-day aircraft (a Dassault Falcon X, for instance, goes for like 60-70 million dollars,) but either way it's going to be out of the range of most 'Runners who don't get it by five-fingered discount.

[Sengir]

The only jet VTOL I've found in Arsenal is the Gulfstream Luxe V.

The thing on the 4E cover (I'm assuming you are talking about the one with the LS logo) looks more like a tilt-rotor design for me, though it might be something like the VJ 101

And the Arsenal rules for what is VTOL and what not are a bit wonky anyway. The T-Birds are not even STOL according to Arsenal...

[ShadowDragon8685]

The thing on the 4E cover (I'm assuming you are talking about the one with the LS logo) looks more like a tilt-rotor design for me, though it might be something like the VJ 101

No, I was talking about the Gulfstream Luxe V, a business jet found in Arsenal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've got no idea what that thing the Star is fielding on the cover of SR4 is. It looks like it's about to crash, since even a tilt-thrust aircraft doesn't want the body getting to that kind of angle, that low to the ground, especially in a hazard-rich environment like the heart of Seattle.

(Completely aside, is it just me, or is that troll with the magic and the shotgun like, far too chill for a guy who's blasting someone with magic?)

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Not even the kull drone is STOL ... and the FB eagle is mentioned as VSTOL, which is just bullshit. Also, none of the Helicopters has the "Improved Vertical Takeoff and Landing 2" quality ...

[Sengir]

No, I was talking about the Gulfstream Luxe V, a business jet found in Arsenal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I assumed you were looking for something that maches the LS vehicle on the cover (and is not a T-bird)

(Completely aside, is it just me, or is that troll with the magic and the shotgun like, far too chill for a guy who's blasting someone with magic?)

I dunno, I'm always distracted by the human...he's pointing his spur in some insane direction, he looks like he's in desperate need of a bathroom, and what in the name of every possible hell are those things on his legs?

[kzt]

Not even the kull drone is STOL ... and the FB eagle is mentioned as VSTOL, which is just bullshit. Also, none of the Helicopters has the "Improved Vertical Takeoff and Landing 2" quality ...

You are expecting the writers and developer to have read the rules, aren't you?

[Stahlseele]

You are expecting the writers and developer to have read the rules, aren't you?

eh, he's still fresh, cut him some slack, he still has hope . .

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

well, not anymore ...

[Stahlseele]

Yah dumpshock tends to do that . .

[CanRay]

You are expecting the writers and developer to have read the rules, aren't you?

I did, extensively.

[Stahlseele]

I did, extensively.

but you were dumpshock first

[ShadowDragon8685]

I assumed you were looking for something that matches the LS vehicle on the cover (and is not a T-bird)

If it exists, I haven't been able to find it.

I dunno, I'm always distracted by the human...he's pointing his spur in some insane direction, he looks like he's in desperate need of a bathroom, and what in the name of every possible hell are those things on his legs?

Look like greaves that only cover the lower parts of his shin and his ankles.

[crash2029]

I like to take a Hawker Skytrain, give it improved economy and suncell and call it a Skyranger. But that's just me.

[Bigity]

You'd condemn your runners to die horribly then in the first turn when a grenade is chucked in before they can get out?

[CanRay]

You'd condemn your runners to die horribly then in the first turn when a grenade is chucked in before they can get out?

Or the enemy mage magically controls the guy with the rocket launcher to fire it at the nearest guy, point blank?

[bibliophile20]

All right. What do you think?


Federated-Boeing Bee
Developed in secret in Federated-Boeing's skunkworks facility between government contracts, the Bee receives its name from its project code: Bumblebee. A vehicle not quite like any other, details of the Bee were carefully leaked to generate interest without giving any competitors enough information to rush a competing project into production before the big reveal. Though this marketing strategy backfired in terms of FB's ability to give the vehicle a better name, it certainly worked in terms of generating interest!

The Bee marries a short-bodied, sliding-door aircraft with a utility profile similar to that of utility helicopters with a tilt-wing design, but the Bee is no rotorcraft. The miracle of the Bee is in its engines: ducted vector-thrust jets and unparalleled fuel economy produce an aircraft capable of both high-speed transoceanic flight and short-range VTOL/hovering operation. The designers of the Bee set out to create a jack-of-all-trades that performed beautifully in any role that might be reasonably asked of it, and they succeeded. The Bee's new, hot, and pretty expensive, with a features list a mile long.

Numbers in parenthesis represent the Bee whilst hovering and loitering.

Handling: 0 (+0)
Acceleration: 30/150 (15/50)
Speed: 700 (150*)
Pilot: 3
Body: 18
Armor: 8
Sensor: 3
Availability: 20
Cost: 1,200,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

*The Bee cannot hover at faster than this rate. Accelerating beyond its maximum hovering speed is tantamount to shifting to forward flight.

Standard Upgrades: Additional Fuel Tank x1, Amenities(1), Enhanced Image Screens (2) Improved Economy, Improved Take-Off and Landing (Level 2), Interior Cameras, Life Support (Level 2), Passenger Protection (Rating 4), Rigger Cocoon (Enhanced) (3), Satellite Communication, Self-Repair.

(1) In keeping with the Bee's multirole design, the Amenities level can be swapped out in the space of an hour's work by ground crew (or two hour's work to install all the luxury geegaws that corporate bigwigs usually insist upon.) The standard, factory amenities run to soundproofing, full wireless connectivity, and comfortable leather bench-seats facing one another front-and-back with five-point crash harnesses, and can range from a cargo floor to a luxury flight suite for four.

(2) In keeping with the Project Bumblebee's directional imperative to 'bring the wow factor,' the interior of the Bee features no screens whatsoever. As such, all displays in the craft, from the entertainment unit in the back for use on long flights to the pilot's heads-up displays, assuming she's not actively rigging the bee, are full holographic. The default user-interface color scheme is a warm amber, but it is of course fully customizable, either by the end-user, or by sending FB a scheme of requirements and having them installed that way at the factory.

(3) One of the problems that FB decided to address when constructing the Bee is the dichotomy between rigged vehicles and vehicles being controlled by a metahuman pilot who was not jumped in. Few solutions have been universally satisfactory: a Rigger in a standard pilot's seat is woefully exposed in the event of danger or dumpshock, while a vehicle which replaces the pilot's controls with a Rigger cocoon is impossible to pilot by any means other than a rigger. A vehicle which features both standard pilot seating and a rigger cocoon is usually wasting space, though of course anyone can be put in the cocoon for transit. FB solved this by building the entire cockpit to the specifications of an Enhanced Rigger cocoon, whilst leaving it large enough and roomy enough for a pilot used to operating in cramped quarters to operate the Bee manually. This turned out to be surprisingly simple and easier than expected, thanks to technology licensed from DocWagon, and FB has promised this innovation of a 'Rigger Cockpit' will be showing up on future products.

*yoink* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ShadowDragon8685]

*yoink* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'll take that as praise of some kind, even if very light on the details. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)