Banned/Restricted Gear, Mainly Enhanced Artwinkulation + ME Options

[Talia Invierno]

I'm in the same boat: I recognise that both can be powerful for their cost ... and I try to get them whenever I can. I don't think the base enhancement is over-powerful. I don't allow reductions on karma costs though - so I suppose that makes me an advocate of some degree of penalisation.

One house rule balancer that we adapted over from another game was the idea that few if any PCs would have the sheer strength of will to study or work at a task without break. The SR system assumes a certain number of hours spent per day. We modify that by 8-WL hours, during which you just accomplish ... nothing. Amazing how many odds and ends get fixed around the home when you are supposed to be working diligently on something intense. (The students among us should all recognise this symptom :P )

The difference is added to the total time required to learn ... and the mnemonic enhancer reduces this (sometimes quite literally!) "wasted" time not at all.

[Hunter]

I've made this point before. The most "broken" piece of 'ware in the game isn't one of these two but the smartgun link. Where else can you get a massive increase in your ability for such a low cost? You go from an average to an easy test (4 to 2) simply by adding this....

[Laughlyn]

I don't see what your big issue with ME is. It only allows characters to understand INT based skills easier. Look at this way, how much faster, how much easier, how much better would you be at advance calculus if you didn't need to look up notes, you could trust your memory, and you could recall formulas in your head in a fraction of the time it normally takes? The same goes for physics, chemistry, biotech (medicine in real life), etc.

The idea of game balance is a screwed up idea that everything in the game is equal. We all know that isn't true.

[Laughlyn]

Hunter
Yea Hunter SGL is powerful, but it's a mere –2tn for ranged weapons. That's not a game breaking ability. Try a troll physad martial artist with a aptitude for unarmed combat. Everyone else rolls TN 5 to hit him and he rolls TN 2 to hit them.

[CanvasBack]

[Sphynx]

[ShadowGhost]

I don't see how ME favors mages more than Street Sams - it costs you a magic point, but does not help, or reduce karma cost for learning new spells - it only reduces karma costs for learning new SKILLS.

ME's are also legal, with a street index of one, and a total cost of $45,000 ¥, so if someone can afford them, AND find a clinic to surgically implant them, so what's the big deal? Are you going to ban steriods because they quarter the Karma Cost for increasing body, or halve the cost for increasing strength too?

We do have a house rule about improving skills beyond 6 - you NEED an instructor, and it's an Etiquette test to find one based on 1.5 times the new skill level you want to improve (another reason to have Etiquette). If your skill is 6, you're already world class, and you need coaches and instructors to help get to the next level, and this also costs cash.

[Fortune]

[CanvasBack]

[Laughlyn]

Sphynx, do you have a crap load of people running around in your game with a 12 STR? Or does that go hand in hand with self teaching yourself a skill spec at level 12?

Not to mention it's brainware making it automatically cultured bioware. Do you allow people to start with cultured bioware for no additionally cost and or an edge?

You may want to check your math again. While it is cheaper by far with the ME, it's not as cheap as you're playing it out. I'll do the math when I can find my main book. Still though I'd find the STR 12 to be more off setting than ME, not to mention allowing the ME as starting bioware.

[Sphynx]

Actually, if you read my previous post, you'll see I actually think ME's are "good", I just restrict them from Magic users.

Yes, I allow Cultured Bioware since I ignore the FAQ when it suits me since it's not Canon.

Any level of Str comes up the same[Edit]in regards to halving the cost[/Edit], I kept it at 12 to avoid different algs for skills being higher/lower than attribute (Ie: to make it easy).

Cost (since you don't have the book) is a mult of 1.5 for skills and 0.5 for spec's <= Attribute.

My only point was saying that there is more than TN adjustments that you mention, it reduces Karma cost and THAT's where people have problems. It's roughly equivalent to handing the person with the ME twice as much Karma for each game, and GMs don't like that.

Sphynx

[Laughlyn]

You do realize that with your example it shows basically half karma. The farther off the base, the more it costs and changes your ratio. With a base STR of 6 the cost is 87/65 to get Edge Weapons (swords) of 6/12. Cutting it down to 25% off.

Again though this is just assuming that the GM would allow someone to become a self taught grand master of the sword. Without the checks and balances of the game, anything can sound powerful.

[Sphynx]

Actually, those that wouldn't allow Grand Mastery are the ones that really see the bonuses. 16 Karma for an ME to get a skill from 0 to 6, vs 30. Basically every skill one person gets to 6, someone else gets 2.

What one person pays for a skill to 4 (14 karma), the ME user can get 5 skills to 3 (15 karma). or 2 to 4 (12 karma) and 1 to 3.

Anyhows, I agree that it's balanced, I allow non-magic's to have one so they can advance as quickly as a Mage is all.

As for allowing skills to 12, to each their own. I play a unrealistic JohnWoo style of gaming where the team is all the best at something, and wencourage it. Sure, it's not realistic to be WorldClass with a Rating 12, but at least 3 people in our Team DO have that rating and it's funner for it. :P

Sphynx

[ShadowGhost]

[hobgoblin]

hell, from what i read the thing is cultured bioware, that means its offlimits for starting chars. then i find nowhere is says that it can be used on magic, attributes or anything other then skills...

[sapphire_wyvern]

The main reason why the ME is extra powerful for mages is that mages are already karma sinkholes. This is a balancing factor, and allowing mages to get really cheap skill advancement along with all the benefits of initiation can allow them to become incredibly powerful very quickly. Consider that most mages can't afford to spend much on skills at chargen; if they have an ME, they can quickly pick up pretty much any rating 3, 4 or even 5 skill from scratch for only 5 or 6 karma.

That said, I don't think it's an unreasonable piece of ware, provided that it's not allowed at character generation.

[Sphynx]

Zactly what the Sapphire Wyvern said. In addition, it allows a Sammie to stay even with Mage types in regards to power levels. Without it Mages soar, improving nicely nearly every game, and a Sammie seems to just sit there, unimproved.

Sphynx

[hobgoblin]

in fact a sammie can get skills in the high 20's by the tiem it takes a mage with the same bio to get high 10's as the mage will be looking into initiation (amn big hole after 3-4 levels) quickening, foci and some new spells, all of this cant be helped with the ME...

[The White Dwarf]

Guys, two things:

First off, the ME is MORE valuble to mages, who have more things to spend karma on. Saving any karmar for them is valuble. Eventually the Sam will effectivly cap his skills out and have nothing to do - the mage needs to initiate (at the least) pass that.

Second, ME is not as powerful as it seems. More karma, whuppe. All it does is make you effectivly cap out sooner. Yay power. Your guy with ME will be just as powerful as my guy without ME if we go to a high enough karma level, simply because youll run out of stuff to do. It doesnt actaully give you any game advantage other than a feel good factor because you "advance" faster. Its the PERCEPTION thats under review here not the MECHANICS.

You want mechanics? SL-2 gives you an undeniable mathematical advantage. Innate reach for a troll is an advantage. Having a datajack gives you more flexibility than I can shake a troll-sized stick at. Ive said it before and Ill say it again: SR is not made by a die or two, or some karma, its all about making smart decisions in your play group. So do what you want to these 'wares, but stop making it sound like theyre the be all end all of play, because neither one will make a difference in the later stages of the game with experienced runners.

PS- the troll above with reach and aptitude unarmed (which the edge itself suggests against) can only use his reach to increase the opponent tn or decrease his, tns of 5 and 2 at once is impossible. It can be 4/2, or 5/3. Just something I couldnt help but correct.

[krishcane]

Lucky for me as GM, my PCs don't read the books very carefully. We've been playing for years, and none of them have found the Mnemonic Enhancer yet. They did find EA, but it hasn't been a problem. Like someone said, the bad guys can always have more dice.

--K

[BGMFH]

Does anyone else enforce the IC effects of ME?

With near perfect memory, the look on that guards faace as hes wasted never goes away.

The feel of that rush during sex never fades.

Enforce the effects... After having their samurai turn into a cold hearted killer, then into a sociopath, that'll kill that.

And their soft-hearted mage turning pacifist, if not selfdestructive from the memories, dreams and nightmares....

C'mon people. be mean!

[Spellslinger]

<wrong thread/my bad>

[ToThePain]

[Fortune]

[Laughlyn]

Do you mean the concealability, the cost, the ammo capacity or the rest of the advantages that it has that you simply can't build into a pistol for that cheap. If you were able to pull out the "flechette only" part of the pistol, it would be better than anything on the market.