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> Gear of the Tir Na Nog military
Ryusukanku
post Mar 3 2012, 08:24 AM
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I need some help here. I'm working on a character who is Ex-Tir Na Nog military and I'm thinking he might even have some of his old gear.

Can somone possibly tell me what Firearms and other gear the average member of the Tir Na Nog military has, and if possible the Book and page number to confirm this in?

Thank you very much.

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Bugfoxmaster
post Mar 3 2012, 11:24 AM
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Unfortunately, there's likely nothing particularly specific about that. Take a look at the Tir na Nog sourcebook for hints, but I don't think you're going to find anything particular - you might get lucky with a statblock or something, but realistically I doubt it. I suggest Heckler-Koch weapons, since they're the standard in the area, and since SK is the big corp in Europe...
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Nath
post Mar 3 2012, 12:27 PM
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Tir na nOg sourcebook (circa 2054) introduced Armements Eireann-Tir corporation as the local producer. AET NN8 light pistol was equivalent to Fichetti 500, AET NN8/2 to Fichetti 500/a, AET NN11 to Ares Predator (with Concealability 4, Ammo 25), AET NN12 to Ares Viper Slivergun (with Concealability 5, Ammo 25), AET NN15 to Remington Roomsweeper, and AET NN22 to HK227 and Dealanach to Defiance Super Shock.
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Critias
post Mar 3 2012, 02:27 PM
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Yeah. Aside from their crazy face-matching sniper rifle zany stuff, most of their gear was just "use the stats for ______, but call it ______ instead." Which, to be honest, I much prefer to hundreds of different, but almost exactly the same, firearms bein' out there. I'm a tremendous fan of quick name swaps like this, personally.
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CanRay
post Mar 3 2012, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 3 2012, 10:27 AM) *
Yeah. Aside from their crazy face-matching sniper rifle zany stuff, most of their gear was just "use the stats for ______, but call it ______ instead." Which, to be honest, I much prefer to hundreds of different, but almost exactly the same, firearms bein' out there. I'm a tremendous fan of quick name swaps like this, personally.
Whereas a gun nut like me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Angelone
post Mar 3 2012, 03:12 PM
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Not a regular member of the Tir Na Nog military but in Artifacts Unbound pg 109 Felicia McGuiness is equipped with this:

Light military armor [w/ holster, mobility upgrade 3, rutheniumpolymer coating, skinlink]

military helmet [w/ flare compensation, image link, smartlink, thermographic vision]

Weapons:
FN HAR [w/ personalized grip, smartgun, 7 clips APDS ammo]
Ares Predator IV [w/ personalized grip, smartgun, 3 clips EX-explosive ammo]
Short sword [Weapon Focus 5]
Cougar Fineblade Long Blade
3 fragmentation grenades
3 high explosive grenades
4 thermal smoke grenades

She's an elite operator and her equipment probably reflects that her superiors want to have some level of deniability if something goes wrong. I also noticed her skill set seemed incomplete there's a "," and it just ends I mentally added thrown weapons because it makes sense.

Edit- I also imagine that's more of a combat load for when she knows she has to roll hard.
I've been trying to get more info for both the Tirs and have been told something is in the works.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 3 2012, 03:31 PM
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How common is it, in 2070, for a skilled solider to leave with their highly-controlled military gear? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Angelone
post Mar 3 2012, 03:50 PM
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Honestly, depending on the background it could be fairly easy. One option is he deserted while on a mission in a hostile area, another is the mission was blown and he got burned by his government. Those are two just off the top of my head.
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snowRaven
post Mar 3 2012, 04:09 PM
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Except with RFIDs in all gear and traceable weapon/gear id that may not be the best choice in the 2070ies...
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 3 2012, 04:30 PM
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I'm assuming we're talking about soldiers, not deniable covert ops (as mentioned, they'd have 'deniable' gear anyway). Either way, both of those examples seem to answer my question with 'very rare'. Desertion is a big risky deal, and I feel like 'burn your priceless troops' ops must be considerably rare.

Yeah, the 'in 2070' was the key aspect there. I just feel like this is a common and BS reason for having things. This isn't WW2 or anything… it feels one step better than 'I'm an escaped prototype killing machine' as backgrounds go.
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CanRay
post Mar 3 2012, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (snowRaven @ Mar 3 2012, 12:09 PM) *
Except with RFIDs in all gear and traceable weapon/gear id that may not be the best choice in the 2070ies...
*Cough* Lots of time in a hide-away with a tag eraser.
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snowRaven
post Mar 3 2012, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 3 2012, 06:02 PM) *
*Cough* Lots of time in a hide-away with a tag eraser.


Sure - but if you desert on a mission chances are they'll track you before you get to such a hide-away.
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Ryusukanku
post Mar 3 2012, 06:00 PM
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Well, What if they wanted to get rid of you to begin with?

Being an Ork in the pro-Elf Tir Na Nog military has a way of attracting the wrong kinds of attention.

I was thinking that when he's finally forced to leave, his Quartermaster buddy slips him his uniforms and some of his gear because "They told me since I probably wasn't going to get the 'Ork Stink' out of them I should just burn these so who's gonna know?"

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snowRaven
post Mar 3 2012, 06:03 PM
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QUOTE (Ryusukanku @ Mar 3 2012, 07:00 PM) *
Well, What if they wanted to get rid of you to begin with?

Being an Ork in the pro-Elf Tir Na Nog military has a way of attracting the wrong kinds of attention.

I was thinking that when he's finally forced to leave, his Quartermaster buddy slips him his uniforms and some of his gear because "They told me since I probably wasn't going to get the 'Ork Stink' out of them I should just burn these so who's gonna know?"


I'd allow that, as long as it's not very rare/valuable gear.
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Ryusukanku
post Mar 3 2012, 07:22 PM
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Well yeah. I mean Common sense there.

You probably could get away with a Uniforms, some basic rucksack gear (entrenching tool, messkit, etc) , a Rifle of some kind and a sidearm but I doubt he'll say "And here's a Pocket-Nuke for your troubles."

Every shadowrunner knows you gotta earn that Pocket-Nuke,
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Critias
post Mar 3 2012, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 3 2012, 11:02 AM) *
Whereas a gun nut like me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Nah, it's actually because I'm a gun nut that I don't care for a hojillion different heavy pistols that are all almost exactly the same. I'd rather people just stick with a core 8-10 models of any given firearm type, and swap out the name when they want to change descriptors, then have page after page of practically the same gun, because the simple truth is you can't (or shouldn't, in the case of an abstract game like SR) really quantify the little stuff that, IRL, differentiates between one gun and the next. So all the cool shit that makes a Glock a little different from a 1911, or a Sig a little different from an HK, gets brushed aside. All that matters in an RPG is damage code, capacity, and what upgrades come automatic, really.

So the cool little fiddly bits that make one company different from another? All that gets broken down to damage code, capacity, and built-in upgrades. Then an (arbitrary?) cost gets slapped on, and you call it a day. I don't want to call it "dumbed down," because it's a level of detail that I think is appropriate for a game. But because I think that it's the level of detail that's appropriate, I don't see why we pretend otherwise, and pretend like we need book after book of almost-but-not-quite-the-same-gun.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 3 2012, 08:29 PM
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Agreed, with the added wrinkle of the 'one best gun' problem (freaking Alpha).
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 3 2012, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 3 2012, 01:29 PM) *
Agreed, with the added wrinkle of the 'one best gun' problem (freaking Alpha).


It is funny, though. Gun Enthusiast (Gun Nut has so many negative connotations (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) that I am, I have never had a character EVER use the Ares Alpha in Game. *Shrug* Not sure why, exactly, I just do not really like it all that much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 3 2012, 09:01 PM
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It has negative connotations for a reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But no, I wasn't saying gun nuts would prefer (or not) the Alpha; there's no correlation. I was saying that the array of guns we have manages to be boringly consistent and yet dominated by 1-3 'best' options at the same time.
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snowRaven
post Mar 3 2012, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 3 2012, 10:01 PM) *
It has negative connotations for a reason. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But no, I wasn't saying gun nuts would prefer (or not) the Alpha; there's no correlation. I was saying that the array of guns we have manages to be boringly consistent and yet dominated by 1-3 'best' options at the same time.


Agreed.

Guns should have the 'similar models' thing that vehicles have, imo. Then we'd have the 'best' 3-9 at least (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Mar 3 2012, 10:02 PM
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Interestingly, most of the "best" guns are in the core rulebook. There is not a single gun in Gun Haven that i use, because the are worse than the other guns AND more expensive.
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kzt
post Mar 3 2012, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 3 2012, 08:02 AM) *
Whereas a gun nut like me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'll talk about terminal ballistics of various calibers and the difference between Bushmaster, LMT and Colt AR-15s all day long, but in SR there isn't any way to portray this kind of minor subtle differences. What you end up in SR when you try to create differences is creating one or two super weapons and this huge list of essentially worthless junk.
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CanRay
post Mar 3 2012, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 3 2012, 04:35 PM) *
It is funny, though. Gun Enthusiast (Gun Nut has so many negative connotations (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) that I am, I have never had a character EVER use the Ares Alpha in Game. *Shrug* Not sure why, exactly, I just do not really like it all that much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I've always been of the idea that one should call a spade what it is: "That's the thing you're going to use to dig your own grave."

The Ares Alpha is a nice firearm. If I went that route, however, I'd likely get an AK-98, however. Easier and cheaper to ditch and replace if need be.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 4 2012, 02:48 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 3 2012, 04:41 PM) *
I've always been of the idea that one should call a spade what it is: "That's the thing you're going to use to dig your own grave."

The Ares Alpha is a nice firearm. If I went that route, however, I'd likely get an AK-98, however. Easier and cheaper to ditch and replace if need be.


I guess... heh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I like the AK, but I find myself typically with a Sernopal vz/88V or the AK-147 over the AK97/98 when choosing an Assault Rifle. The FN-HAR is another decent choice that I often make as well.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 4 2012, 02:54 AM
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… They all are. That's the point: apart from the Alpha, they're all the same. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Especially if you start modding them a bit.
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