IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Initiation question
Caadium
post Mar 5 2012, 04:48 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 604
Joined: 1-December 08
From: Sacramento, California
Member No.: 16,646



Something came up as were wrapping things up that didn't seem right and I wanted to get some feedback.

Are you required to be at maximum magic in order to initiate? For example, if a mage has 6 essence, can they initiate if their magic is only 5?

I can see arguments for either case, but I don't recall seeing anything in the books about it, and I'm away from my books right now. So, what is the correct answer and what book goes into it so I can clarify for everyone next time we get together?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hagga
post Mar 5 2012, 05:04 AM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 825
Joined: 21-October 08
Member No.: 16,538



You sure can. You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times - so if I had 3 points of magic, but was trying to initiate to Grade 4, I'd be unable to do so. In the aforementioned example, if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest, and then lost a point of magic due to the essence loss and the cosmic facepalming that followed, I'd lose the 4th grade of initiation as my magic dropped back to 3. Or, if I lost 2, I'd drop back to the second grade of initiation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bibliophile20
post Mar 5 2012, 05:05 AM
Post #3


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,180
Joined: 22-January 07
From: Rochester, NY
Member No.: 10,737



Nope, you can initiate at any point; most mages don't get over Magic 5, afterall. IIRC, the sole limiting factor is that you can't have a higher Initiate Grade than your Magic rating. *checks books* Okay, SR4A, pg 198:
QUOTE
A character’s initiate grade cannot exceed her Magic attribute. If
a character’s Magic is reduced below her initiate grade, she loses that
level of initiation and the metamagic she gained with it.


But that's the sole limitation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tanegar
post Mar 5 2012, 05:06 AM
Post #4


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,654
Joined: 29-October 06
Member No.: 9,731



There is nothing in my (pre-errata, blue-cover) copy of Street Magic that says you have to be at maximum Magic to initiate. JOOC, how did this come up?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tanegar
post Mar 5 2012, 05:08 AM
Post #5


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,654
Joined: 29-October 06
Member No.: 9,731



QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 5 2012, 12:04 AM) *
You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times

This is extremely poorly worded, as it implies that a magician who has never initiated (Grade 0) cannot have a Magic higher than 0, which is ludicrous. A better way to say it is the way the book puts it: A character's initiate grade cannot exceed her Magic attribute.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SpellBinder
post Mar 5 2012, 05:27 AM
Post #6


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,351
Joined: 19-September 09
From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance
Member No.: 17,653



Two major numbers you have to consider in this:

1: Your maximum Magic attribute cannot exceed 6 + Initiation Grade
2: Your Initiation Grade cannot exceed your Magic attribute

Other than that, you could have a Magic attribute of 1 and go through an initiation. Granted you could only go through one initiation unless you improved your Magic attribute to 2, but you could then go up to a Magic attribute of 7 if you wanted before you went through your second initiation. (Note that I'm basing these numbers off of an Essence of 6.)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caadium
post Mar 5 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 604
Joined: 1-December 08
From: Sacramento, California
Member No.: 16,646



QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2012, 09:06 PM) *
There is nothing in my (pre-errata, blue-cover) copy of Street Magic that says you have to be at maximum Magic to initiate. JOOC, how did this come up?


First run was completed with this group of players. After karma awards people start asking what limitations there are on spending them. I mention that I'm holding off on spending any til I can initiate. At this point, one player asks if my magic is maxed, when I tell him its 5 of 6 he insists I can't until I raise my magic.

Oddly enough we had no hardcover books this session, just PDFs, and all computers were put away and we were leaving since it was 2 in the morning.

Now, I NEVER recalled seeing anything along those lines, and neither did the GM, but he and I are both old-school players so some of the changes from previous editions have gotten missed in the past. For example, I only recently noticed that drain while astrally projecting is no longer physical and the GM was shocked when I pointed that out. So, although neither of us recalled seeing it, we figured we'd check into it because there was a chance it was just something we'd taken for granted.

Thank you for proving that at least in this instance I am not insane.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 5 2012, 01:16 PM
Post #8


Horror
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,322
Joined: 15-June 05
From: BumFuck, New Jersey
Member No.: 7,445



The funny thing about Initiation is it that it is theoretically possible for a magician (or Adept) to cram their body with 5 points of augmentations and still have a wiz-bang level of flash-and-bang thanks to having lots of Initiation grades and using that to raise up his Magic.

When the enemy magician has as much ware as a starting-out Street Samurai, you know you're in for a suck-tastic time, because chances are you just picked a fight with an Ares Bughunter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
snowRaven
post Mar 5 2012, 01:46 PM
Post #9


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,665
Joined: 26-April 03
From: Sweden
Member No.: 4,516



Give the npc Biocompatability(-10% Essence cost on cyber), make him a Way of the Burn-out Mystic Adept(-10% Essence cost on cyber), Adapsin treatment(-10% Essence cost on cyber), and make those augmentations delta grade custom cybersuites(-55% or 60% Essence cost, depending on the rules you use) - get all the cyber you feel you need, and then some, and fill the rest with delta grade Bioware (you can make the Biocomp apply to bioware instead, if you're getting a lot of it).

Then initiate and raise magic to your hearts desire, and stock up on Infusion foci. Add a Power Focus, Weapon Focus, Centering Focus, and Shielding Focus as needed, and maybe a few Anchoring Foci and Sustaining Foci, a Quickened spell or three, and maybe a few Spirit Pacts - and for a real surprise use Masking, Extended Masking, and a Masking focus to keep the PCs in the dark until the last moment (a False Impression illusion spell can help disguise the guys aura).

Lock the PCs in a room with him, bring forth his bound spirits, activate all the foci and drop the masking - then watch your players have fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jaellot
post Mar 5 2012, 03:46 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 252
Joined: 26-August 10
From: Greensboro, NC
Member No.: 18,971



QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 5 2012, 12:04 AM) *
You sure can. You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times - so if I had 3 points of magic, but was trying to initiate to Grade 4, I'd be unable to do so. In the aforementioned example, if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest, and then lost a point of magic due to the essence loss and the cosmic facepalming that followed, I'd lose the 4th grade of initiation as my magic dropped back to 3. Or, if I lost 2, I'd drop back to the second grade of initiation.


I see you are going for the Ron Jeremy cyberschlong, hmm?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dr.Rockso
post Mar 5 2012, 05:09 PM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 583
Joined: 6-November 09
From: MTL
Member No.: 17,849



QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 5 2012, 12:04 AM) *
You sure can. You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times - so if I had 3 points of magic, but was trying to initiate to Grade 4, I'd be unable to do so. In the aforementioned example, if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest, and then lost a point of magic due to the essence loss and the cosmic facepalming that followed, I'd lose the 4th grade of initiation as my magic dropped back to 3. Or, if I lost 2, I'd drop back to the second grade of initiation.


Awesome. You sir, have been signatured.

|
v
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tanegar
post Mar 5 2012, 08:33 PM
Post #12


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,654
Joined: 29-October 06
Member No.: 9,731



QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 5 2012, 05:59 AM) *
At this point, one player asks if my magic is maxed, when I tell him its 5 of 6 he insists I can't until I raise my magic.

At the next session, you must stand on your chair, point your finger at him dramatically, and say in a loud voice, "Dumpshock says you are WRONG!"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
capt.pantsless
post Mar 5 2012, 08:39 PM
Post #13


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 206
Joined: 9-September 10
From: Minneapolis, MN
Member No.: 19,032



QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 4 2012, 11:04 PM) *
if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest...


It's brilliant! The bad-guys would assume that the epic-cyber-wang equipped shadowrunner surely couldn't be the mage, and thus, should not be geeked first.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 5 2012, 09:01 PM
Post #14


Horror
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,322
Joined: 15-June 05
From: BumFuck, New Jersey
Member No.: 7,445



QUOTE (capt.pantsless @ Mar 5 2012, 03:39 PM) *
It's brilliant! The bad-guys would assume that the epic-cyber-wang equipped shadowrunner surely couldn't be the mage, and thus, should not be geeked first.


At least until the epic-cyber-wang starts giving them grenade bukakke. Then, mage or not, they'll decide he needs to go up on the geeking priority list.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
snowRaven
post Mar 5 2012, 09:58 PM
Post #15


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,665
Joined: 26-April 03
From: Sweden
Member No.: 4,516



QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 10:01 PM) *
At least until the epic-cyber-wang starts giving them grenade bukakke. Then, mage or not, they'll decide he needs to go up on the geeking priority list.


Anyone with a chest-mounted cyberpenis should be at the top of the geek list - in all possible meanings of the word 'geek list'...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fistandantilus4....
post Mar 6 2012, 02:29 AM
Post #16


Uncle Fisty
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 13,891
Joined: 3-January 05
From: Next To Her
Member No.: 6,928



Back to original topic please.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tanegar
post Mar 6 2012, 10:46 PM
Post #17


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,654
Joined: 29-October 06
Member No.: 9,731



QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Mar 5 2012, 09:29 PM) *
Back to original topic please.

Original topic has already been thoroughly addressed. Grenade bukkake for EVERYBODY! *opens fire*
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 03:35 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.