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> Initiation question
Caadium
post Mar 5 2012, 04:48 AM
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Something came up as were wrapping things up that didn't seem right and I wanted to get some feedback.

Are you required to be at maximum magic in order to initiate? For example, if a mage has 6 essence, can they initiate if their magic is only 5?

I can see arguments for either case, but I don't recall seeing anything in the books about it, and I'm away from my books right now. So, what is the correct answer and what book goes into it so I can clarify for everyone next time we get together?
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Hagga
post Mar 5 2012, 05:04 AM
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You sure can. You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times - so if I had 3 points of magic, but was trying to initiate to Grade 4, I'd be unable to do so. In the aforementioned example, if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest, and then lost a point of magic due to the essence loss and the cosmic facepalming that followed, I'd lose the 4th grade of initiation as my magic dropped back to 3. Or, if I lost 2, I'd drop back to the second grade of initiation.
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bibliophile20
post Mar 5 2012, 05:05 AM
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Nope, you can initiate at any point; most mages don't get over Magic 5, afterall. IIRC, the sole limiting factor is that you can't have a higher Initiate Grade than your Magic rating. *checks books* Okay, SR4A, pg 198:
QUOTE
A character’s initiate grade cannot exceed her Magic attribute. If
a character’s Magic is reduced below her initiate grade, she loses that
level of initiation and the metamagic she gained with it.


But that's the sole limitation.
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Tanegar
post Mar 5 2012, 05:06 AM
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There is nothing in my (pre-errata, blue-cover) copy of Street Magic that says you have to be at maximum Magic to initiate. JOOC, how did this come up?
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Tanegar
post Mar 5 2012, 05:08 AM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 5 2012, 12:04 AM) *
You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times

This is extremely poorly worded, as it implies that a magician who has never initiated (Grade 0) cannot have a Magic higher than 0, which is ludicrous. A better way to say it is the way the book puts it: A character's initiate grade cannot exceed her Magic attribute.
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SpellBinder
post Mar 5 2012, 05:27 AM
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Two major numbers you have to consider in this:

1: Your maximum Magic attribute cannot exceed 6 + Initiation Grade
2: Your Initiation Grade cannot exceed your Magic attribute

Other than that, you could have a Magic attribute of 1 and go through an initiation. Granted you could only go through one initiation unless you improved your Magic attribute to 2, but you could then go up to a Magic attribute of 7 if you wanted before you went through your second initiation. (Note that I'm basing these numbers off of an Essence of 6.)
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Caadium
post Mar 5 2012, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2012, 09:06 PM) *
There is nothing in my (pre-errata, blue-cover) copy of Street Magic that says you have to be at maximum Magic to initiate. JOOC, how did this come up?


First run was completed with this group of players. After karma awards people start asking what limitations there are on spending them. I mention that I'm holding off on spending any til I can initiate. At this point, one player asks if my magic is maxed, when I tell him its 5 of 6 he insists I can't until I raise my magic.

Oddly enough we had no hardcover books this session, just PDFs, and all computers were put away and we were leaving since it was 2 in the morning.

Now, I NEVER recalled seeing anything along those lines, and neither did the GM, but he and I are both old-school players so some of the changes from previous editions have gotten missed in the past. For example, I only recently noticed that drain while astrally projecting is no longer physical and the GM was shocked when I pointed that out. So, although neither of us recalled seeing it, we figured we'd check into it because there was a chance it was just something we'd taken for granted.

Thank you for proving that at least in this instance I am not insane.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 5 2012, 01:16 PM
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The funny thing about Initiation is it that it is theoretically possible for a magician (or Adept) to cram their body with 5 points of augmentations and still have a wiz-bang level of flash-and-bang thanks to having lots of Initiation grades and using that to raise up his Magic.

When the enemy magician has as much ware as a starting-out Street Samurai, you know you're in for a suck-tastic time, because chances are you just picked a fight with an Ares Bughunter.
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snowRaven
post Mar 5 2012, 01:46 PM
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Give the npc Biocompatability(-10% Essence cost on cyber), make him a Way of the Burn-out Mystic Adept(-10% Essence cost on cyber), Adapsin treatment(-10% Essence cost on cyber), and make those augmentations delta grade custom cybersuites(-55% or 60% Essence cost, depending on the rules you use) - get all the cyber you feel you need, and then some, and fill the rest with delta grade Bioware (you can make the Biocomp apply to bioware instead, if you're getting a lot of it).

Then initiate and raise magic to your hearts desire, and stock up on Infusion foci. Add a Power Focus, Weapon Focus, Centering Focus, and Shielding Focus as needed, and maybe a few Anchoring Foci and Sustaining Foci, a Quickened spell or three, and maybe a few Spirit Pacts - and for a real surprise use Masking, Extended Masking, and a Masking focus to keep the PCs in the dark until the last moment (a False Impression illusion spell can help disguise the guys aura).

Lock the PCs in a room with him, bring forth his bound spirits, activate all the foci and drop the masking - then watch your players have fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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jaellot
post Mar 5 2012, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 5 2012, 12:04 AM) *
You sure can. You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times - so if I had 3 points of magic, but was trying to initiate to Grade 4, I'd be unable to do so. In the aforementioned example, if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest, and then lost a point of magic due to the essence loss and the cosmic facepalming that followed, I'd lose the 4th grade of initiation as my magic dropped back to 3. Or, if I lost 2, I'd drop back to the second grade of initiation.


I see you are going for the Ron Jeremy cyberschlong, hmm?
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Dr.Rockso
post Mar 5 2012, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 5 2012, 12:04 AM) *
You sure can. You are required to have a magic equal to your Initiate Grade at all times - so if I had 3 points of magic, but was trying to initiate to Grade 4, I'd be unable to do so. In the aforementioned example, if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest, and then lost a point of magic due to the essence loss and the cosmic facepalming that followed, I'd lose the 4th grade of initiation as my magic dropped back to 3. Or, if I lost 2, I'd drop back to the second grade of initiation.


Awesome. You sir, have been signatured.

|
v
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Tanegar
post Mar 5 2012, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 5 2012, 05:59 AM) *
At this point, one player asks if my magic is maxed, when I tell him its 5 of 6 he insists I can't until I raise my magic.

At the next session, you must stand on your chair, point your finger at him dramatically, and say in a loud voice, "Dumpshock says you are WRONG!"
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capt.pantsless
post Mar 5 2012, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 4 2012, 11:04 PM) *
if I decided it'd be hilarious to have a colossal cyberpenis that shot grenades installed in my chest...


It's brilliant! The bad-guys would assume that the epic-cyber-wang equipped shadowrunner surely couldn't be the mage, and thus, should not be geeked first.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 5 2012, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (capt.pantsless @ Mar 5 2012, 03:39 PM) *
It's brilliant! The bad-guys would assume that the epic-cyber-wang equipped shadowrunner surely couldn't be the mage, and thus, should not be geeked first.


At least until the epic-cyber-wang starts giving them grenade bukakke. Then, mage or not, they'll decide he needs to go up on the geeking priority list.
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snowRaven
post Mar 5 2012, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 10:01 PM) *
At least until the epic-cyber-wang starts giving them grenade bukakke. Then, mage or not, they'll decide he needs to go up on the geeking priority list.


Anyone with a chest-mounted cyberpenis should be at the top of the geek list - in all possible meanings of the word 'geek list'...
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fistandantilus4....
post Mar 6 2012, 02:29 AM
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Back to original topic please.
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Tanegar
post Mar 6 2012, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE (fistandantilus4.0 @ Mar 5 2012, 09:29 PM) *
Back to original topic please.

Original topic has already been thoroughly addressed. Grenade bukkake for EVERYBODY! *opens fire*
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