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> Maximum Attribute Ratings, What's the Limit?
Tashiro
post Mar 8 2012, 03:33 AM
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My sister's playing a pixie in my Shadowrun campaign, and is trying to get the pixie's Strength increased by a Quicken. The thing is, she's maxxed out the character's Strength already (to 3), and taken the Adept ability of 'Increased Strength' at 1 (raising it to the augmented maximum of 4). What we're both wondering is -- would the spell 'Increased Attribute' allow her to actually boost this up any higher, or is she limited to having a Strength of 4 barring her taking any Positive Qualities to raise it (say, to an unaugmented 4, allowing for an augmented of 6)?
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 8 2012, 03:37 AM
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Alas, the augmented max is exactly that, barring maybe Possession. That's the *only* drawback of being a Pixie, so she'll have to live with it.
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CanRay
post Mar 8 2012, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 7 2012, 11:37 PM) *
Alas, the augmented max is exactly that, barring maybe Possession. That's the *only* drawback of being a Pixie, so she'll have to live with it.
Well, that, and being a calorie-free snack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
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Tashiro
post Mar 8 2012, 03:58 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 7 2012, 10:37 PM) *
Alas, the augmented max is exactly that, barring maybe Possession. That's the *only* drawback of being a Pixie, so she'll have to live with it.


Actually, with possession I limited the attributes to their augmented maximums as well, so that won't work. I guess she'll just have to accept having her Bod and Str at 4.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 8 2012, 04:16 AM
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Not everyone agrees, which is why I said maybe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, what a weird pixie build!
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 04:26 AM
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QUOTE (Tashiro @ Mar 7 2012, 08:58 PM) *
Actually, with possession I limited the attributes to their augmented maximums as well, so that won't work. I guess she'll just have to accept having her Bod and Str at 4.


Isn't that an official faq-nerf anyway?

The one that still works the broken way if the possess-ee is dead?
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Tashiro
post Mar 8 2012, 04:27 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 7 2012, 11:16 PM) *
Not everyone agrees, which is why I said maybe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, what a weird pixie build!


Well, she decided Pixie Warrior Adept / Archer build. She liked the idea of an invisible archer that can flit around and shoot things.
What makes it awesome is that she took 'Trashy Trideo (Comedy)' as a knowledge skill. She lives in a corporate owned park, watches 'classic' racist trideo, and mocks it when she's not Shadowrunning.

What kills me is she named herself 'Pixie Stix'.
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 04:33 AM
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That's hilarious, and I applaud your player, but isn't she kind of gimping herself by having such a low strength?


If you like the idea of a pixie archer, you should definitely go 'fuck the poorly supported rules' and work with your player directly on coming up with a fair means/cost of raising their strength cap. As far as I know, Exceptional Attribute, Metagenetic Improvement, and Genetic Optimization(stealable with Genetic Heritage) are the only ways of raising an -augmented- max. And picking up those in play takes at least 40 karma, due to the terrible conversion rate between BP and Karma

Personally, I would give her a custom pixie bow that LOOKS like however she wants it, but uses the stats for a crossbow. The good old change the appearance but not the stats patch. Unless i'm misremembering, xbows should have a flat damage, and while its not as good as a regular bow, it should be higher than your pixie.
Use of poison may be a decent alternative/supplement.

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Yerameyahu
post Mar 8 2012, 04:34 AM
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Gimped Strength is the whole point of a pixie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 04:43 AM
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I'm also really surprised your adept wasted a bun of points on Improved Strength. its a whopping 1.75 points for very little benefit. Attribute Boost is WAY better in this situation.

Depending on how literally you're taking the wording on the Infusion metamagic, the 'enhance beyond normal range' may include the augmented, letting an adept temporarily surge to super-metahuman heights. Might be a possibility, but its even shakier than the normal things I suggest. Still, its your game.

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Glyph
post Mar 8 2012, 04:52 AM
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She could take Exceptional Attribute (Strength) and SURGE II with Metagenetic Improvement (Strength), barely leaving her the 5 points to be an adept, for a revised maximum of 5 (7 augmented), if she wants to play the strongest pixie in the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have a hard time picturing a pixie being able to use a bow, though. If she wants to play a small character with a big punch, I would recommend being a throwing adept, instead. Get missile mastery and power throw: 3 (hmm, would that run up against the augmented maximum? Not sure how I would handle such a conditional Strength bonus), for someone who can turn small knives, or even office supplies, into lethal weapons. And she can also add grenades to the mix for more fun.
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Critias
post Mar 8 2012, 04:53 AM
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I dig the basic concept, but I agree that mathematically she's getting a little weird right now. A few suggestions for ways she could re-jigger her points?

To fit with the concept, a lenient GM might look into a variation on Critical Strike or Elemental Strike that lets her boost Archery DV -- have a gentleman's agreement not to go crazy with it -- because it's not like "Archer Adept with magical flaming arrows" isn't a core concept of Shadowrun magic's sister game, Earthdawn. It's totally in keeping with the feel of how mojo potentially works (especially with a super-magical race like Windlings, err, I mean Pixies), and if you're okay with it in your game, it could be pretty cool. Instead of trying to magically bump her Strength through the roof (just to boost Archery damage), letting her re-invest the points in some combination of this stuff could be thematically appropriate, do the same thing for her, and maybe fit her character a little better. Critical Shot, Elemental Shot, stuff like that? It's cool and it's fun and if she doesn't go so crazy with it your game breaks, have a good time, y'know? For what it's worth, I'm cool with pretending it came up while discussing Errata for Way of the Adept, so consider it an optional rule if you want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Alternately, and closer to RAW? She could buy Distance Strike (and then pour on Critical Strike and junk like that, house ruling it to allow Elemental Strike if you really want), but limit it to a Geas of when she's using her bow. Then she can still flit around and snipe at dudes using normal arrows with halfway respectable damage (using the regular Archery rules)...but when she's in closer, within Distance Strike range, she can pour on the flashier magical effects, twanging her bow and sending magical bolts of burnination (or whatever) at bad guys. Having to "double dip" and take some Unarmed Combat (albeit I'd allow a "Distance Strike" specialty, myself) along with her Archery would keep it from being too potent, I'd think.
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 04:54 AM
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i think you're onto something here. A refluffed 'power throw' power that applies to archery instead might be a good solution to what your player wants to do.
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KarmaInferno
post Mar 8 2012, 05:34 AM
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My Pixie has Strength scores of 9.

But she's not using her own arms for that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)




-k
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Tashiro
post Mar 8 2012, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Mar 7 2012, 11:52 PM) *
I have a hard time picturing a pixie being able to use a bow, though. If she wants to play a small character with a big punch, I would recommend being a throwing adept, instead. Get missile mastery and power throw: 3 (hmm, would that run up against the augmented maximum? Not sure how I would handle such a conditional Strength bonus), for someone who can turn small knives, or even office supplies, into lethal weapons. And she can also add grenades to the mix for more fun.


Equipment is something we've been trying to figure out.
She's got her bow. She paid 50 nuyen for it to have the 'metahuman adaptation', along with her Cougar fineblade. So, I was reasonably okay with that, though I wonder about range at times.
Then she picked up the Steampunk outfit (7/7 armour).
Then she picked up a commlink, and has her pixie wear it as a backpack. I sort of wonder about the 'trodes though, and how well she can use it.
Then she picked up contact lenses and earbuds. This is where I wonder ... just how small can they make these electronics? Do they have this in pixie size?!
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Tashiro
post Mar 8 2012, 05:43 AM
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We decided, just as a thought experiment, to see how far this could have gone from CharGen.

1) Exceptional Attribute: Strength (4(6))
2) Surge: Metagenic Improvement: Strength (5(7))
3) Genetic Optimization: Strength (6(9))

So, for a crapton of BP and .2 Essence, she could in theory pull off a 9 Strength. I think we'd have to name her Tinkerbell if she went that route. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 05:49 AM
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QUOTE (Tashiro @ Mar 7 2012, 10:35 PM) *
She's got her bow. She paid 50 nuyen for it to have the 'metahuman adaptation', along with her Cougar fineblade. So, I was reasonably okay with that, though I wonder about range at times.


I always wanted a bow-option for the victorinox smartstaff
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KarmaInferno
post Mar 8 2012, 06:02 AM
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Runner's Companion suggests a price markup of +50% for sapient critter adapted gear.

I know for my Missions pixie I try to pick Evo branded stuff, as they are supposed to have more meta-human and critter adapted gear than anyone.



-k
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 06:23 AM
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QUOTE (Tashiro @ Mar 7 2012, 10:43 PM) *
We decided, just as a thought experiment, to see how far this could have gone from CharGen.

1) Exceptional Attribute: Strength (4(6))
2) Surge: Metagenic Improvement: Strength (5(7))
3) Genetic Optimization: Strength (6(9))

So, for a crapton of BP and .2 Essence, she could in theory pull off a 9 Strength. I think we'd have to name her Tinkerbell if she went that route. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Also, isn't the strength max on a bow 8? Saves you a bunch of points in Exceptional Attribute right there.
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Makki
post Mar 8 2012, 07:07 AM
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she could get a custom made (usually metahumans only) Military Grade Armor. These can be equipped with Strength Upgrade 3 which ignores augmented attribute max, because it comes from mechanical servos and stuff.
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 07:21 AM
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PFthahaahahha

And people think MY suggestions are bad.

That's not tinkerbell, that's a pint-sized Iron Man!
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Makki
post Mar 8 2012, 07:31 AM
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Well, Udoshi, I think my idea is great! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Also:

New Adept Power

Multi-Shot
Cost: 1

Among the most agile archers in this world, a few realized
that one arrow sometimes just isn't enough.
Assuming their agility is high enough to ready more than one
arrow at a time, an Adept with this power may shoot all of
them in a single action. Use the rules for Burst Fire to calculate
DV or defense malus. The negative penalty to the shooter still
applies, due to the increased inaccuracy.
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Udoshi
post Mar 8 2012, 08:07 AM
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Pfft. too expensive. Better idea:

Martial arts maneuver: Multishot:
When using a bow or other thrown weapon, you may fire multiple shots with the same action. Each weapon must be Readied, and you split your dice pool between shots, with a -1 recoil penalty for each shot beyond the first.


Basically it takes the melee multi-strike rules and applies it to close-combat thrown stuff. So you can actually throw a dagger in each hand, or robin-hood two arrow, or even pick up a handful of popcorn and throw it at someone.
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Xenefungus
post Mar 8 2012, 09:53 AM
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What a bad build! Ich mein, really. Just use a crossbow anyhow, if she's into such things.
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Thanee
post Mar 8 2012, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Mar 8 2012, 08:31 AM) *
Well, Udoshi, I think my idea is great! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


There is some undeniable greatness in it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

S12 Pixie ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (faster, spin faaaaaster, ruuuuuuuun!)

Bye
Thanee
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