Grenade and rocket launcher rules question Options

[Mikado]

In regards to the rocket rules in SR4A on page 156.

Resolving Rocket and Missile Fire
Rocket fire is resolved in the same manner as for grenade launchers.
See Grenades, p. 155.

For grenade launchers it only has rules in the main book regarding a minimum firing range (5m for grenade launchers) and an extended test for the removal of that safety feature.

Now, on page 139 of War! we have a second rule regarding grenade launchers.

Grenade Launchers and Targeting
Minigrenades can be set to explode when they hit their target
(or whatever they hit instead of the target). This allows a grenade
Launcher to be used more like direct-fire weapons. A wireless capable
minigrenade (the default manufacturing mode) can be
set to contact detonation with a Change Linked Device Mode (p.
288, SR4A) at any point up to the time it is fired, even while it is in
the grenade launcher. A minigrenade without wireless capability
must be set manually with an Armorer + Logic (8, Complex
Action) Extended Test.
When using a grenade launcher with contact-triggered
minigrenades, you can fire directly at a target. You must declare
that your character is doing so before the attack. Make a Heavy
Weapons + Agility Opposed Test against the target, using the
normal rules for ranged combat (p. 150, SR4A), using net hits to
add to the base Damage Value of the grenade for only the target
that was attacked. The grenade also damages those within its blast
radius normally, using its base Damage Value and ignoring the net
hits from the attack. If the attack misses, roll for scatter (with a
reduction for net hits) to determine where the grenade detonates,
resolving the blast as normal.
The ability to increase damage with net hits only works for
exploding grenades; grenades that attack a target indirectly (e.g.,
gas or splash grenades) have their normal effect. Note that grenade
launchers are heavy weapons, and as such any dice pool penalty
due to uncompensated recoil is doubled.

My question is: How do these two rules interact?
One of the people in the group I run with (the GM... and the one who first brought up the rule) think that since the rule in War! is referring to minigrenades it only applies to minigrenades.

I believe that since the title of the rule is regarding grenade launchers it also can be used for rockets due to the rule in the main book.

The group has decided not to use the rule in War! regardless of how the rule is supposed to be handled but I am curious what everyone else thinks.

[Saint Sithney]

The scatter for grenades is conceptually based on the fact that they hit and then roll before detonating on the next pass.

Scatter for rockets makes no sense to begin with.

I say apply the impact rules for microgrenades to rockets because rockets have impact fuses by default.

[Mikado]

I agree that the rules regarding rockets make no sense as is. Say... Agility 6 + Heavy Weapons 6 + smartlink and specialization you're looking at 16 dice. That would be an exceptional person mind you. That is 4 hits on average. At 3d6 scatter (average roll being 10) that puts you 6 meters off target! That is nearly 20 feet!

Yes, I do know you can put an airburst link on it. That is not the point.

Besides... rockets are supposed to be direct fire weapons... They lack the guidance and surface control systems that missiles have to fire indirectly.

[Froggie]

After rereading that section of WAR, I think that it does makes sense for rocket fire.

However the net hits could make rockets quite dangerous in the hands of an expert heavy weapons guy, or someone using edge, which seems alright.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, as Saint Sithney said: the problem is rocket scatter in the first place.

[Mikado]

I agree that adding hits to the base damage makes them crazy deadly. Our group does not add hits for damage on a few attacks; Tazers, Stick-N-Shock, Gas/Toxins. There may be a few more but I don't remember right now.

[snowRaven]

Using direct hit rules, but no net hits for damage, on rockets seems like it could be a good idea.

[Yerameyahu]

Personally, I don't add hits for grenades, either (any explosives). WAR! be damned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Using direct hit rules, but no net hits for damage, on rockets seems like it could be a good idea.

Makes 'em pretty deadly, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Don't net hits reduce scatter instead of directly adding damage?
And then you apply the blast template with fixed damage drop off over distance?

And really TJ . . IT'S A ROCKET LAUNCHER!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KILLEY!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And really TJ . . IT'S A ROCKET LAUNCHER!
THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KILLEY!

Heh... No arguments here... I was just sayin' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It really sucks to be told "You see a great white light, make a new character."

Having fired over a thousand of the little bastards over my years in the Military, I can attest that they are not all that hard to shoot accurately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It is just that if they are accurate, characters are going to die much more often. *Shrug* It works for me, but not everyone agrees on that.

[snowRaven]

Heh... No arguments here... I was just sayin' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It really sucks to be told "You see a great white light, make a new character."

Having fired over a thousand of the little bastards over my years in the Military, I can attest that they are not all that hard to shoot accurately. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It is just that if they are accurate, characters are going to die much more often. *Shrug* It works for me, but not everyone agrees on that.

It all depends on how often you shoot rockets at your PCs, of course...

In general, if they managed to meet the business end of a rocket, maybe they deserved to permanently leave the shadows and go into the light?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It all depends on how often you shoot rockets at your PCs, of course...

In general, if they managed to meet the business end of a rocket, maybe they deserved to permanently leave the shadows and go into the light?

Very True. And Again, No arguments. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Was caught in an insurrection during a campaign, once - It lasted about 6-7 Game Sessions, If I Remember Correctly. It really sucks when 'runners are up against Military Grade hardware.

[snowRaven]

Very True. And Again, No arguments. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Was caught in an insurrection during a campaign, once - It lasted about 6-7 Game Sessions, If I Remember Correctly. It really sucks when 'runners are up against Military Grade hardware.

...or when they get ahold of it themselves, for that matter. (I'm reminded of my demolitions-freak of a player again...)

[Mikado]

So, anyone have ideas on how the rocket rule fits in with the new grenade launcher rule?

[snowRaven]

So, anyone have ideas on how the rocket rule fits in with the new grenade launcher rule?

I think it'd fit well.

I'm looking to use it as default, and finally get rid of my players whining over the rocket scatter rules (I've heard that for 22 years now...)