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> How does projecting interact with your phsyical form?
ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 9 2012, 12:10 AM
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As far as I know, if you're projecting and your physical body gets killed, you may remain astral for as long as you had hours to remain projected before dissipating, thus possibly giving you time to find allies and ask them to avenge you, find loved ones and say your last words, find some dark and twisted spirit and make a faustian pact to borrow an Inhabitation or Possession power and gank some other poor bastard's body, undertake an emergency Metaplanar Quest to find a Metaplane where astral forms don't dissipate, or just go and do something you always wanted to do but never would've because you wouldn't have survived it, like try to astrally fly to the moon, or go and tell off Lofwyr or Ghostwalker.

The only thing that's confusing me now is why isn't there an Astral Condition Monitor? (8 + Willpower/2) boxes would seem to be the right choice. If you take a stunball spell while you're Astral, the damage racks up on your normal Stun Condition Monitor; if you take leave of your senses and decide to massively overcast something, you take the Drain on your physical condition monitor, and so forth and so on.

How does that affect your projecting self, though? Do you suffer wound penalties for wounds you load onto one of your condition tracks while you're projecting? What about preexisting ones that were there when you projected? And what happens when your meat body dies; do you suddenly have no more wound penalties at all? Are you effectively invincible for the duration of your projecting time, able to go on an overcasting nova spree, chipping away at Great Dragons with Death Touch with virtual impunity, and able to summon the oversummoned spirit you've already dreamed of? Or are you completely helpless, unable to do anything but perceive that which is obvious and communicate with others?

And what if someone takes exception to your continued existence during your golden hours, and wishes to hasten your departure from existence? Can that Great Dragon turn around and blast you into dust, and if so, to what effect? You don't have any condition tracks any more, because you're a dead magician projecting, so it seems like even nailing you with a deadly Mana spell like Manabolt, or mauling you in Astral Combat, would be completely and utterly ineffective.

Basically, what the heck is going on with a magician when he's past the threshold of mortality and clinging to existence as a psychic projection?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 9 2012, 12:22 AM
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If the Body is destroyed/killed/otherwise made inhospitable for your spirit, you have the rest of your normal Magic Hours in the Astral to live. Then you fade away.
And usually, damage to your body will suck your astral form right back into the body and wake you up. Immediately.
Like, no delay in between. Yes, it's more or less a cop out from this problem, but eh, it works, so try not to poke too many holes into it i guess . .
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ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 9 2012, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 8 2012, 07:22 PM) *
If the Body is destroyed/killed/otherwise made inhospitable for your spirit, you have the rest of your normal Magic Hours in the Astral to live. Then you fade away.
And usually, damage to your body will suck your astral form right back into the body and wake you up. Immediately.
Like, no delay in between. Yes, it's more or less a cop out from this problem, but eh, it works, so try not to poke too many holes into it i guess.


Wouldn't that handily solve the "my body was just kidnapped!" problem? The Magician could simply Oversummon a spirit to get some physical damage onto his physical damage track, snap to his body, and then wait for his new friend to show up and rescue him?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 9 2012, 12:27 AM
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If you can tell your spirit where your body is, yes, this should work.
But as you don't KNOW where it is, neccessarely, this does not work all that good . .
Remember, you are, as a full mage, limited to magic hours in the astral.
After that, you fade. Even if your Body still lives . .
So, you are out for . . one, maybe two hours . . your body gets taken away then.
You have 4 hours left to live in the astral, in which you have to find your body again.
Else, you go poof and your body dies. And yes, i think it has to be YOUR body.
A wimp would not work i think. I am not sure though . .

Ah, hold that though, you wrote oversummon to take drain damage . .
Can you, actually, summon spirits when you are on the astral?
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ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 9 2012, 12:33 AM
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There's no reason you shouldn't be able to. And if you oversummon to get some drain on your track, under the rule that any physical damage snaps you back to your body, your new friend - the spirit - will immediately come to you as fast as he can, then you can have him go on a rampage against your enemies.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 9 2012, 12:34 AM
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i'm not good with the magic rules, but i think you had to be in meat space to summon spirits . . not sure though . .
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ShadowDragon8685
post Mar 9 2012, 12:36 AM
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I'm not very good with the magic rules either, but summoning a spirit (not binding, but summoning,) is a purely psychic thing as far as I know, so you should be able to do it on the Astral.

And even if not, you could always tag yourself with a mana-based damage spell to zip back to your body, or just overcast anything at all.
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Kolinho
post Mar 9 2012, 12:45 AM
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How would you know that your meat body has been kidnapped though?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 9 2012, 12:48 AM
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Only by coming back and not finding it where you left it.
come to think of it . . using concealment critter power on the body of a projecting mage is a nasty way to hurt somebody . .
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 9 2012, 01:33 AM
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Is there a specific reference for 'damage to the body snaps the astral form back'? I know I've seen a fluffy line to that effect, at least.
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snowRaven
post Mar 9 2012, 01:47 AM
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Afaik nothing except in previous editions where a full stun track would zip you back to your body.
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KeyMasterOfGozer
post Mar 9 2012, 07:34 PM
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What about the "silver cord" that connects your astral form to your body? Is that previous versions, or am I confusing real world fluff?
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Wiseman
post Mar 9 2012, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (KeyMasterOfGozer @ Mar 9 2012, 02:34 PM) *
What about the "silver cord" that connects your astral form to your body? Is that previous versions, or am I confusing real world fluff?


Think that is ok, except a strong astral storm or githyanki silver sword might sever it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)











Just in case you were serious, wrong game (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Lantzer
post Mar 9 2012, 08:18 PM
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The limitation on conjuring while astral was in the older editions: Back in 3rd Edition, Conjuring was an exclusive magical action, meaning it needed total concentration and you could not do anything else mana-related at the same time - like projecting. I have not seen anything in 4th Edition that works that way.
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Wiseman
post Mar 9 2012, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (Lantzer @ Mar 9 2012, 03:18 PM) *
The limitation on conjuring while astral was in the older editions: Back in 3rd Edition, Conjuring was an exclusive magical action, meaning it needed total concentration and you could not do anything else mana-related at the same time - like projecting. I have not seen anything in 4th Edition that works that way.


Don't you need summoning materials for conjuring, hence impossible while Astral? Way I've always run it. You can call/command spirits already bound/summoned however.
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Wiseman
post Mar 9 2012, 08:23 PM
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double post sorry.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 9 2012, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Wiseman @ Mar 9 2012, 01:23 PM) *
Don't you need summoning materials for conjuring, hence impossible while Astral? Way I've always run it. You can call/command spirits already bound/summoned however.


Technically, No. Materials are only a requirement for Binding. That said, many Traditions would/could use "Stuff" for the Summoning of Spirits as well, IIRC. But as far as I know, it is all Fluff, with no mechanical Bite unless enforced by the Table.
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CanRay
post Mar 9 2012, 08:33 PM
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"Why is he pulling Manga and Anime out?" "Don't interrupt him." "A Hello Kitty Plushie?" "Never dealt with an Otaku Magician before, have you? Now, quiet, he's summoning a spirit."
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Medicineman
post Mar 9 2012, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE
Don't you need summoning materials for conjuring

Nope,
only for Bindig
Conjuring can be done with (even without) just snipping Your Fingers and can be done while projecting

with an astral Dance
Medicineman
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Stahlseele
post Mar 9 2012, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 9 2012, 09:33 PM) *
"Why is he pulling Manga and Anime out?" "Don't interrupt him." "A Hello Kitty Plushie?" "Never dealt with an Otaku Magician before, have you? Now, quiet, he's summoning a spirit."

i liked the part in one of the novels where a cat shaman summoned a spirit to guard runners . . bits of string, some chicken nuggets and an empty bag.
string starts moving, chicken nuggets disappear bit(e) by tiny bit(e) and then the bag moves and a small little white kitten stretches its head out of the bag and blinks with a questioning:"meow?"
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snowRaven
post Mar 9 2012, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 9 2012, 09:29 PM) *
Technically, No. Materials are only a requirement for Binding. That said, many Traditions would/could use "Stuff" for the Summoning of Spirits as well, IIRC. But as far as I know, it is all Fluff, with no mechanical Bite unless enforced by the Table.


I liked it better back when there was the distinction between spirits and elementals...
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snowRaven
post Mar 9 2012, 08:36 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 9 2012, 09:36 PM) *
i liked the part in one of the novels where a cat shaman summoned a spirit to guard runners . . bits of string, some chicken nuggets and an empty bag.
string starts moving, chicken nuggets disappear bit(e) by tiny bit(e) and then the bag moves and a small little white kitten stretches its head out of the bag and blinks with a questioning:"meow?"


Oh! I had forgotten about that! Yeah... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Stahlseele
post Mar 9 2012, 08:37 PM
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Yeah, the distinction was nice, imho . .
But spirits always could be summoned without materials, just by concentrating on the correct domain . .
Still had to be in meat space then though . .
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CanRay
post Mar 9 2012, 08:45 PM
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Some people think it's easier to summon with the stuff (Or it might be a Gaes), there's also the "respect" that Shamans give spirits that Mages don't that's the other possibility. Finally, it's fun to freak out the non-magic types that think you have to do the weird stuff. Then surprise the hell out of them by pull out the big guns and only suffer some bleeding from the eyes, ears, and nose.
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Medicineman
post Mar 9 2012, 08:47 PM
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Still had to be in meat space then though . .
Then (way back in SR3) Yes
not now (in SR4A) anymore

with a modern Dance
Medicineman
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