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> Spell stacking
crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 02:55 PM
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If a mage has the same spell cast upon them from multiple sources, do the effects stack? What if the mage casts the same spell upon herself multiple times (and sustains all the instances)?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 10 2012, 03:10 PM
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complicated issue . . usually, only highest bonus counts . .
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 03:12 PM
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So a mage couldn't sustain multiple Force 6 armor spells on herself simultaneously?
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Mar 10 2012, 03:15 PM
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Well, he could - but i would not let the armor stack
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 03:22 PM
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In that case, and assuming sustaining foci cap at force 6 (which appears to be a common convention, although I cannot find rules support for it), how does a mage get a respectable armor rating?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 10 2012, 03:25 PM
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Oversummon high force spirit, have spirit overcase armor spell and sustain it while possessing him.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Mar 10 2012, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 10 2012, 04:22 PM) *
In that case, and assuming sustaining foci cap at force 6 (which appears to be a common convention, although I cannot find rules support for it), how does a mage get a respectable armor rating?

By wearing a respectable armor, of course - MilSpec armor stacks with the Armor spell
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 10 2012, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 10 2012, 08:22 AM) *
In that case, and assuming sustaining foci cap at force 6 (which appears to be a common convention, although I cannot find rules support for it), how does a mage get a respectable armor rating?


Ummmmm... What do you consider respectable?
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 10 2012, 03:37 PM
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There are people who say that everything, even duplicate effects, stack (by default). Those people are probably crazy, but maybe not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It depends more on your table and your GM, than what 'is RAW' (who cares?).
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 03:44 PM
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Seeing as how mages are often the first targeted, I'd like at least 15/15, preferably more, especially since I have so few boxes on my physical track (Body 3). Also, MilSpec armor is not really an option because this is supposed to be for walking around day-to-day...
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 10:37 AM) *
There are people who say that everything, even duplicate effects, stack (by default). Those people are probably crazy, but maybe not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It depends more on your table and your GM, than what 'is RAW' (who cares?).


It seems that there are gaps in RAW one could drive a truck through, making DnD 3.5e look watertight by comparison... oy vey...
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 10 2012, 03:52 PM
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They went to a lot of trouble to make 3.5 watertight, so that's to be expected. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Luckily, as I said, you don't have to worry what's RAW. Just read it, and then do what's good.

15/15 means you can stop a HMG, an assault cannon, a sniper rifle, a LAW rocket, or a vehicular Light Autocannon. … Who did you piss off? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Besides, you can get to 12/12 just by wearing 6/6 armor with your Body 3 and stacking an Armor 6 spell on. That's pretty close, and enough to stop so many things.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 10 2012, 03:54 PM
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No, you can't really stop it . . you just take more stun damage than physical i think . .
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 10:52 AM) *
They went to a lot of trouble to make 3.5 watertight, so that's to be expected. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Luckily, as I said, you don't have to worry what's RAW. Just read it, and then do what's good.

15/15 means you can stop a HMG, an assault cannon, a sniper rifle, a LAW rocket, or a vehicular Light Autocannon. Who did you piss off? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


The PCs, which generally have between 15 and 20 dice in their preferred combat skill, this is for a (very likely hostile) prime runner. That's also why I'm asking the forum for advice, "ask your GM" doesn't help when you're the GM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) .
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Hida Tsuzua
post Mar 10 2012, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 10 2012, 04:44 PM) *
Seeing as how mages are often the first targeted, I'd like at least 15/15, preferably more, especially since I have so few boxes on my physical track (Body 3). Also, MilSpec armor is not really an option because this is supposed to be for walking around day-to-day...

You generally do it the same way mundanes do it. Chop off limbs and get cyberlimbs with armor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Depending on how you GM feel, you might be able to get your "average" body to count for encumbrance* and thus be able to wear more worn armor as well.

Also the armor spell is terrible if you want it for walking around. It makes you glow and screams "I'm a mage!" to everyone.

*-I assume this is the case, but there really is not direct quote for or against this.

Edit- Oh you're the GM. You might also to look at Umaro's Burnout Combat Mage for a tough spellcaster.
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ Mar 10 2012, 10:59 AM) *
You generally do it the same way mundanes do it. Chop off limbs and get cyberlimbs with armor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Depending on how your GM feels, you might be able to get your "average" body to count for encumbrance* and thus be able to wear more worn armor as well.

Also the armor spell is terrible if you want it for walking around. It makes you glow and screams "I'm a mage!" to everyone.

*-I assume this is the case, but the GM says natural body there really isn't a rule quote or anything to go by.


This particular runner has public awareness 11, so screaming "I'm a mage!" to everyone is not really new territory for her. She also would lose way too much magic from the essence loss associated with 'ware, in addition to it being totally out-of-character for her to even consider it.

EDIT: We're way off the original topic, but I guess I got my answer; at my table, similar effects don't stack.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 10 2012, 04:09 PM
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That's what I meant, Stahlseele, but certainly yes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But no amount of armor would do that.

OP, guns are just deadly. I don't think the solution is to make the NPC a literal tank, but instead for him to be a smarter target, you know? Armored vehicles, guards (inc. spirits), stealth, reasons they can't just hose him, etc.

You can also (and personally I don't like it) cast Armor into the focus using Edge to break the hit cap? Meh.
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Hida Tsuzua
post Mar 10 2012, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 10 2012, 04:04 PM) *
This particular runner has public awareness 11, so screaming "I'm a mage!" to everyone is not really new territory for her. She also would lose way too much magic from the essence loss associated with 'ware, in addition to it being totally out-of-character for her to even consider it.

Yeah, but it making approaching the PCs much harder as well as everyone else in the area.

Do you have a sheet? Depending on how she's built, there's several ways to armor her up. Increase Body + armor stacking + armor spell should let you get up pretty high. You'll be a SWAT wearing glowing avatar of doom that the PCs will likely see a mile away, but it'll work.
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ Mar 10 2012, 11:11 AM) *
Yeah, but it making approaching the PCs much harder as well as everyone else in the area.

Do you have a sheet? Depending on how she's built, there's several ways to armor her up. Increase Body + armor stacking + armor spell should let you get up pretty high. You'll be a SWAT wearing glowing avatar of doom that the PCs will likely see a mile away, but it'll work.


I'm heavily retooling the sheet, since she was originally statted out when I was first learning the system and thought 6/6 was plenty of armor. The issue with SWAT armor and similar is that the fluff doesn't really fit. She styles herself after a sorceress from swords and sorcery type novels, and as such wouldn't wear any bulky armor.

EDIT: Using Edge to break the hit cap might work.

EDIT2: One of my players, a cybered-out ork martial-artist, can generally take a Panther XXL shot without flinching. Given a decently skilled (12 pool) shooter, and an average number of hits(1 in 3). 12 means 4 hits, minus 2 for 6 reaction, so a modified DV of 12P, versus 29-5 ballistic armor and a soak pool of 12 (10 BOD + ceramic bone lacing) = 36, or 12 hits, making the net damage 0S.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 10 2012, 04:24 PM
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Maybe she needs Slow, then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) People hate that spell, hehe.
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snowRaven
post Mar 10 2012, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 05:24 PM) *
Maybe she needs Slow, then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) People hate that spell, hehe.


Even my players hate that spell. I didn't even have to forbid it myself, they did it for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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crazymykl
post Mar 10 2012, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 10 2012, 11:24 AM) *
Maybe she needs Slow, then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) People hate that spell, hehe.


Slow gives her plenty of time to cackle arrogantly and taunt the party. It's perfect. (Although it took me looking through 4 books to find it.)

EDIT: RAW, that shit stops a Freya shot, if cast at force 10...
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Hida Tsuzua
post Mar 10 2012, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 10 2012, 05:21 PM) *
I'm heavily retooling the sheet, since she was originally statted out when I was first learning the system and thought 6/6 was plenty of armor. The issue with SWAT armor and similar is that the fluff doesn't really fit. She styles herself after a sorceress from swords and sorcery type novels, and as such wouldn't wear any bulky armor.

You can actually go pretty far with armor clothing though you'll be wearing a steampunk dress instead of a true S&S bikinis. You can also just keep the spells sustained with Psyche. That'll let you keep 2 spells for only a -2 to your dice pools.

However if you're doing mage versus the party battle, you might just want her to hang back and just send a group of bound spirits at the PCs. It's just as subtle as a glowing mage and they don't have to worry about walking down the street. She can be hanging out on the astral plane, in a car, or up in a building.

Edit- It also sits with the S&S theme since mages in those books always liked to hang back and let minions do the work.
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snowRaven
post Mar 10 2012, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (crazymykl @ Mar 10 2012, 05:21 PM) *
I'm heavily retooling the sheet, since she was originally statted out when I was first learning the system and thought 6/6 was plenty of armor. The issue with SWAT armor and similar is that the fluff doesn't really fit. She styles herself after a sorceress from swords and sorcery type novels, and as such wouldn't wear any bulky armor.

Alright...

- Sustained Deflection spell Force 6; +6 dice pool defending against ranged attacks.
- Sustained Combat Sense spell Force ?; add successes to Reaction for Surprise and defending against ranged and melee (if this is capped at maximum augmented Reaction or not at your table determines the force)
- Sustained Armor spell Force 6; armor 6/6
- Sustained Increase Body spell to push her Body up to augmented maximum.
- Sustained Reinforce spell on her armor to push it up to max what she can carry without penalties.

Assuming a human, you should get at least 9+6 dice for defense against ranged attacks, and an Armor rating of 26/23

Armor Jacket w/Reinforce 6: 14/12
Formfitting Half-suit: +4/+1
PPP System excluding helmet: +2/+4
(counts as 18/16 for encumbrance - doable with Body 9)
Armor spell: +6/+6

Edit: If you go with the chainmail instead as per the post below, change the armor to 8/13; total 20/24

...or use whatever armor you want and cast a Fashion spell on it...
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Stahlseele
post Mar 10 2012, 04:57 PM
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Chainmail-Bikini.
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