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> Banks in Shadowrun
Jekolmy
post Mar 14 2012, 02:04 AM
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What has become of banks in the 6th world?

Most currency has become electronic and is stored on the Zurich station (correct?) and loans to private persons is likely non-existent (see wage slave). But yet some people prefer physical cash or credsticks.

I've had thoughts about running a bank heist for a convention game for friends back home as my school game has pretty much fallen apart with schedules being the way they are.



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Angelone
post Mar 14 2012, 02:15 AM
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Banks still do what they do, but there is less focus on physical currency and more focus on electronic. They still deal with paper money and certified credsticks because there is still a demand for them just not as much. Most corporations have their own banks that they use to keep the wage slaves firmly in their pockets.
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Yerameyahu
post Mar 14 2012, 03:34 AM
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What about safe deposit boxes?
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The Jake
post Mar 14 2012, 03:45 AM
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Chromed Accountant mentioned many years ago that bearer bonds are still valid currency. You could do a traditional bearer bond heist, ala. Die Hard 1 if you wanted? Or a gold bullion (or orichalchum) heist if you really wanted? E.g. Die Hard 3? Or if you wanted to do the electronic one, look at Die Hard 4.0 -- I'm sure after two Matrix crashes someone has come up with a similar plan to stop money disappearing... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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Angelone
post Mar 14 2012, 03:50 AM
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Safe deposit boxes most likely still exist, with the added bonus of possibly being on extraterritorial grounds within driving distance of home.
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Tanegar
post Mar 14 2012, 06:11 AM
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Every game about professional criminals should involve a bank heist at some point.
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Shortstraw
post Mar 14 2012, 07:16 AM
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QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 14 2012, 04:11 PM) *
Every game about professional criminals should involve a bank heist at some point.

In space with rocket launchers!
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CanRay
post Mar 14 2012, 07:17 AM
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Don't forget that while the Nuyen is the currency of choice, it's not the only one.
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jaellot
post Mar 14 2012, 11:20 AM
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I imagine security would be a nightmare. A corp compound, on a smaller scale, but just as much.

Individually warded deposit boxes inside a warded room, inside the bank itself which is also warded just for a start.
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Gargs454
post Mar 14 2012, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (jaellot @ Mar 14 2012, 06:20 AM) *
I imagine security would be a nightmare. A corp compound, on a smaller scale, but just as much.

Individually warded deposit boxes inside a warded room, inside the bank itself which is also warded just for a start.


Kind of what I was thinking. This might be fine with characters with enough karma but . . .

That being said, going after the armored car transporting the bonds and then getting them secured (you can be sure that there'd be some sort of tracking mechanism on them, probably more than just RFIDs) could still make for a really good run.

Otherwise, I'm thinking you'd be needing to look at a much smaller scale bank (with understandably smaller rewards).
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Tanegar
post Mar 14 2012, 11:48 AM
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I think a bank heist should be hard. It should require extensive planning and precision timing, and shouldn't be something the PCs can pull off anytime they like, or on a whim.
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The Jake
post Mar 15 2012, 04:01 AM
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Hard - yes. Impossible? Never. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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CanRay
post Mar 15 2012, 04:23 AM
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Anyone check out "Payday: The Heist"?

EDIT: Very pink mohawk, but damned good reference material. I checked it out when they had a free weekend.
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kzt
post Mar 15 2012, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE (jaellot @ Mar 14 2012, 04:20 AM) *
I imagine security would be a nightmare. A corp compound, on a smaller scale, but just as much.

Individually warded deposit boxes inside a warded room, inside the bank itself which is also warded just for a start.

Unlikely, as this would appear to violate at least two of the basic rules about wards.
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Daddy's Litt...
post Mar 15 2012, 02:36 PM
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Good safety deposit places would be more secret. I have heard in RL you can have one at Harrod's in London.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 15 2012, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 15 2012, 12:14 AM) *
Unlikely, as this would appear to violate at least two of the basic rules about wards.


Why? You CAN Have a Ward within a Ward.
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jaellot
post Mar 15 2012, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 14 2012, 07:48 AM) *
I think a bank heist should be hard. It should require extensive planning and precision timing, and shouldn't be something the PCs can pull off anytime they like, or on a whim.


Or you could twist it up and have the heist be easy, but getting out of town (or whatever) is the hard part. It's possibly not the best (or at least not serious) example, but Trapped In Paradise is sort of what I'm thinking. Cliched Nicholas Cage cool-as-a-cucumber one minute then freaking out characters are optional.
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Angelone
post Mar 15 2012, 03:19 PM
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They seemed to have a pretty easy time with the actual robbery in Heat as well, it was the getaway that messed them up.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 15 2012, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (Angelone @ Mar 15 2012, 08:19 AM) *
They seemed to have a pretty easy time with the actual robbery in Heat as well, it was the getaway that messed them up.


The getaway seems to always be the sticking point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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kzt
post Mar 15 2012, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 15 2012, 07:45 AM) *
Why? You CAN Have a Ward within a Ward.

Ok, yeah, that works. But the minimum size is 8 cubic meters.

"A ward must also extend at least
one meter in every direction from the physical anchor that it
is attached to (see below), which prevents ward shapes that
are very tiny or very thin in any dimension."
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 15 2012, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 15 2012, 10:20 AM) *
Ok, yeah, that works. But the minimum size is 8 cubic meters.

"A ward must also extend at least
one meter in every direction from the physical anchor that it
is attached to (see below), which prevents ward shapes that
are very tiny or very thin in any dimension."


Yes, Minimum Ward Requirements are still an issue. Sorry, I thought you were talking about enclosed Wards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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TwoDee
post Mar 15 2012, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (Angelone @ Mar 13 2012, 08:50 PM) *
Safe deposit boxes most likely still exist, with the added bonus of possibly being on extraterritorial grounds within driving distance of home.


The way our GM ran it, a bank was basically JUST a facility for the protection of safe deposit boxes, considering the currency's all digital. The equivalent to a random Well's Fargo, for instance, is a much smaller building, basically just a digital transaction counter, a safe deposit room, and the attendant security.
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Jekolmy
post Mar 16 2012, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Mar 13 2012, 10:45 PM) *
Chromed Accountant mentioned many years ago that bearer bonds are still valid currency. You could do a traditional bearer bond heist, ala. Die Hard 1 if you wanted? Or a gold bullion (or orichalchum) heist if you really wanted? E.g. Die Hard 3? Or if you wanted to do the electronic one, look at Die Hard 4.0 -- I'm sure after two Matrix crashes someone has come up with a similar plan to stop money disappearing... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

The runners will be going after the 'hard' assets of a particularly nasty professional group that I had introduced at the last convention I had run at. (Think the bad guys from the Helsing anime.... but in 207X and enough troops to make a reasonable grab at Seattle instead of London.) They got kicked out of Seattle (last couple of games) and lost most of their assets that were electronic but somehow still retain their gold/orchalchum/bearer bonds through a long list of cutouts and shell corporations and are using that to rebuild their forces and shadow income sources that were lost in the aftermath of their disaster in Seattle.

Right now I'm thinking out loud here and looking for comments:
So there has to be at least one physical facility and probably more (but I only care about one for the purposes of this game). I'm sure my players will want to grab some of it at least as additional payment, but the idea would be to trash whatever they can't carry out (Pillage then burn). I wonder if it wouldn’t be wise to have some vaults hidden in the “open” as it were. I think that a lot of buildings have basements, sub-basements, and so forth. How much extra effort would it take to build a vault into one of those basements or into the upper floors of the building itself (as if you maybe just built a bank handling physical currency into a sky/megascraper). As was said earlier difficult, but not impossible. Its something that’s easier for my players as I’ll have things planned out a fair bit for them, or until things fall apart at least.
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Inu
post Mar 16 2012, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Mar 14 2012, 02:45 PM) *
Chromed Accountant mentioned many years ago that bearer bonds are still valid currency. You could do a traditional bearer bond heist, ala. Die Hard 1 if you wanted? Or a gold bullion (or orichalchum) heist if you really wanted? E.g. Die Hard 3? Or if you wanted to do the electronic one, look at Die Hard 4.0 -- I'm sure after two Matrix crashes someone has come up with a similar plan to stop money disappearing... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

Second the last point -- the books specifically state that any tinkering with the nuyen currency incurs the wrath of GOD, and you can bet they've taken steps to pre-empt pretty much anything that is conceivable. Sure, someone might think of the inconceivable (that word never means what we think it does), but they're working against some of the best minds in the field of computer security.
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kzt
post Mar 16 2012, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Jekolmy @ Mar 15 2012, 07:00 PM) *
I think that a lot of buildings have basements, sub-basements, and so forth. How much extra effort would it take to build a vault into one of those basements or into the upper floors of the building itself (as if you maybe just built a bank handling physical currency into a sky/megascraper). As was said earlier difficult, but not impossible. Its something that’s easier for my players as I’ll have things planned out a fair bit for them, or until things fall apart at least.

Is this a real bank, or just a vault that these guys are using?

Most small banks don't have really high security vaults, but they are not trivial. Bank vaults have a variety of ratings and range from providing 15 minutes of protection against attack to two hours of attack with power tools and cutting torches. Those are minimums, they get tested by experts. Crazy stuff like the Feds Manhattan underground gold vault are something else altogether.

Banks are usually required to have formal and approved security plans with alarms and remote surveillance, but there isn't a guard team watching over the 400 square foot vault at the 17th National branch at 3rd and nowhere over a long weekend. That bank also probably has a class M vault.

If you hit the main downtown office with a huge vault you have a few issues. Like the vault door is often visible from the street, it's a much tougher vault and you do have a on-site security team, plus alarms and surveillance systems.

The main thing that physical security measures provide is time for someone to detect you attempting to steal stuff. If you can prevent anyone from noticing you jackhammering the walls you'll eventually get in to anything.

If it's a vault that a criminal organization built for it's own use then the issues are different. The main security there is concealment, as no amount of physical security is going to keep out a prepared KE Firewatch team with a warrant. If needed KE can just shoot and magic their way in and then sit on the vault and wait while their experts methodically defeat the vault security.

Vault guys (which are pretty rare) are unlikely to attempt to rip off a hugely dangerous and violent criminal organization that can be expected to attempt to find and kill everyone involved and their relatives.
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